The next president Vs. The Soldiers

Ferostie, Welcome to a2k, and thank you for your service to our country. That the civilian president can involve us into any war is a problem; it should be decided by all three branches of government. False information by the president to involve us in war should be charged with a crime, and put into prison. That's my .02c worth.

I heard something very interesting on the radio the other day. They were discussing the issue of Americans who go to war do not shoot to kill their enemy, and only 25% actually do. This fact has been proven over and over ever since the Civil War where they found 90% of the muskets still had the bullets still in the rifles. Even during WWII, most soldiers did not shoot to kill their enemy. They found this out after some admitted that they could not kill another human. More confessed they also did not shoot to kill. The study found that most men cannot consciously kill another human, even if they are "trained" to kill. The fact that many come back from wars with mental problems probably has something to do with it, but that's only my own conclusion.

I also find it interesting that most soldiers who say they wish to return to Iraq are based on being back with their buddies more than killing the enemy. I don't think I ever heard a soldier say he wants to return to Iraq to kill more of the enemy.

What do you think?

Write a letter to GWB telling him what a chickenshit he is. Write another one to McCain telling him why he won't get your vote.

I join CI in thanking you for your service.

My brother has been in the army for about 30 years, he has been deployed to ever hell hole created in that time. He's probably spent more time away from his family than you've been alive. Trust me when I say that killing anyone rates very low on his "to do" list.

Nobody wants to go to war for no reason.

He continues to raise his hand and sign up so that I can sit at home with my family being happy. He's willing to get shot at in the miserable heat or rain or cold of wherever they send him so that I can sit at home happy with my family.

That's kind of what being a soldier is all about.

So....... while I appreciate your service I don't really get your point.

It is tough for the soldiers and loved ones to be separated for long periods of time and this should be thoroughly discussed and considered by all concerned before the soldier volunteers for duty. All of my uncles served in WWII, and all served most of a continuous four years overseas before they got to come home, and one, career Army, spent his four years in WWII and went back for another four in Korea. (The last two years he spent helping train the South Korean army to be able to defend themselves.) All returned home to waiting wives and enjoyed decades of marriage to those same wives. (The uncle who served in Korea died an early death due at least in part to wounds he sustained in that war.) Not a single family member who has ever gone to war did so looking forward to killing people; most wondered if they had it in them to do that if they had to do that.

The next wave served one or two duties in Vietnam and we had family in Iraq until just recently and likely will again. All did what they signed on to do and came home to their families.

As relationships go, when it is an intentional decision by grown up people, it is doable. It would be nice if military service could always be clean, neat, peaceful, and comfortable, but nobody should ever sign on for military duty believing they can count on it being that way.

I think his point was that some wars aren't about keeping you safe at home with your family, and that sometimes these "wars of choice, not necessity" are resented by the people who have to carry them out.

Rob is completely right.

Among tens or hundreds of thousands of people in the service, I am sure there are some who do resent what they are called upon to do.

I have never met anybody who has served in the service that didn't have some complaints or gripes or who didn't at some point throw up their hands at sheer stupidity, incompetence, inefficiency, etc. etc. etc. I imagine few of us have ever been involved in anything that involves other people that we didn't think something could have been done better or differently.

That is certainly true of those I know and have met who have served in Iraq. Some were disappointed when their tour of duty was unexpectedly extended, but I can honestly say that I don't know a single person who has served in Iraq who resented their duty there. Many do resent how their service and accomplishments seem to be perpetually undermined by some back home.

Your message is quite different from what Ferostie said.

Yes, Robert, I get that.

But this person enlisted a little over two years ago. This senseless war was well underway when he joined up. Surely he knew what he was getting into.

That's what I don't get.

Yes, and the war had already become broadly unpopular and was being extensively criticized and questioned by that time too. It would make more sense to enlist, go to war, and then admit you didn't like it. But that would require a great deal of naivete or extreme lack of curiosity I would think.

I was against the war and about to sign up for the military right as it was starting. I was doing so to try to pay for college and had a pretty good idea of what I was getting into. Thankfully, I took a different path that worked out a lot better for me but at the time I didn't think I had any options.

Had I joined, I would still reserve the right to criticize the decision to go to war in Iraq. My plan to join the Army wasn't an endorsement of the war but an evaluation of my prospects at the time.

That being said, my complaints about it certainly wouldn't be about the personal discomfort I expected and I get that part, why complain about deployment when it was fairly obvious you were going to be deployed. But there's something to be said for the detachment American civilians have with their wars. It's remarkable how little modern warfare affects the day-to-day of the average American citizen. Historically it was not as easy on the citizens to wage two wars like this.

There are a lot of reasons for joining; sometimes agreeing to fight in a war if called on to do so is just a part that you take along with the parts you signed up for.
It isn't like knowing we are in stupid wars and saying so would preclude someone from being a soldier.

Is it your opinion that everyone who joins the military should serve silently and robot-like?

Absolutely and unconditionally, no, they should not.

I'm getting ready to go out but I will elaborate tonight or tomorrow.

over the last two years a lot of people joined because they did not have a good job, and the Army was offering up to $40,000 to sign up for the first four years. Also, the Military always crows about how many reenlist, which is great, but they fail to mention that for a very long time there has been a paid bonus up to near $100,000 to sign for a second five or six, and that if the soldier signs while in Iraq this money is tax free ( officers do better than this, and sometimes can get grad school while in uniform for free as well) . The bonuses are paid out yearly, the first year a big chunk.

There are those who join for more noble reasons as well.

Where do I sign? ROFL

it is not that funny..... soldiering during wartime is a hard life especially with family. The point is that not everybody fully anticipates the problems, they came into the Army based upon the financial bottom line.

The reality is that many poor people volunteer into the service irregardless of any problems they may anticipate, because that's the only game in town.

For whatever reason nobody has ever said anything about the real reason for going into Iraq i.e. Saddam Hussein having provided the anthrax to the 9-11 hijackers.

We needed to either Nuke Iraq from orbit or go into it the day after 9-11 and we weren't able to go in on account of the condition Slick had left the military in.

You are a god-damn lying worthless piece of excrement. But it must be noted, you are a good conservative.