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Africa is a dying continent

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 03:00 pm
Although, to advocate against myself -I wonder what Africa would be like today if left untouched by imperialism? At least by western imperialism....
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 03:15 pm
In my cautious optomism, I'd guess it wouldn't be a terribly healthy and happy place, but maybe in less discord? The AIDS thing started there, correct? From monkeys originaly? So, there'd still be the endemic that we see today. There'd still be little in the way of vaccinations as well. I don't see a vital medical establishment cropping up from the tribal roots....
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 03:27 pm
Hmmmm - 'twould be interesting to speculate about how it might have been affected by purely friendly contact with the west - silly, I know. One imagines that the tribal conflicts might be more contained...yes.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 03:38 pm
yeah, seems most of the fighting is flavored by the left-over governments post-colonial rule vs. the local tribal system.

It would be bittersweet speculation, no?
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 04:35 pm
Well, the closest 2nd we have to Africa is South America. Obviously, it was over-run by the Spanish but it remained largely untouched by the other European countries so if nothing else, it only had the discord of a single imperial ruler.

While things are better (overall) in South America than they are in Africa the standard of living (all aspects in total) don't come near any other populated continent (other than Africa of course..). I doubt Africa would have faired much better.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 04:45 pm
fishin, I wasn't aware of this information before my visit to South America last November, but there are many Germans, Italians, and Welsh settled there. Yes, Welsh, in Puerto Madryn, Argentina. c.i.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 04:52 pm
Yes, there are people from all over the world in South America c.i.. But the German, Italian and other governments didn't take over those South American countries and run them as colonies.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 04:54 pm
True. Wink c.i.
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Booman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 05:23 pm
I would imagine if Africa were unafected by western imperialism, They would be at the forefront of civilization, as it once was.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 05:44 pm
When was that, Booman? c.i.
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Booman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 06:28 pm
C.I.,
...When countries of Africa, had advanced civilizations, Europe was in the dark Ages. Discoveries, such as pyramids, in South America, have shown that Africans were in the Western hemisphere, years before columbus, or even Erickson.. However yhey were't into colonization, and apparently the developement of munitions.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 06:40 pm
Yep, there were kingdoms with great cohesive cities and road systems..... but all that was in decline by the time the euros got there. That's not to say there wasn't an effective form of tribalism and inter-tribal communications at the time of the euro arrival.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 07:05 pm
Booman, The advanced civilization of Africa conjures up for most of us Egypt, with the mass continent's history lost or sacrificed by most scholars. However, with a minimum of thinking, it doesn't take one long to realize that all cultures and races has its foundation in Africa. Even Egypt's recorded history of the past 5 to 6 thousand years shows blacks in its royalty class, and the Nubians are still present in Southern Egypt - especially in Aswan. It is also my understanding that China had a highly advanced civilization compared to Europe, so trying to base the level of civilization to Europe may leave our education of "civilizations" wanting. On April 30, I will be traveling to Cuzco and Machu Picchu to see where the Aztec's lived. I will read about their history a few weeks before my trip to understand what the anthropologists have revealed about that culture, and compare them to what I learned about the Egyptians and Southern Africans. My education never ceases. c.i.
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Booman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 07:24 pm
Yes, Egypyt had blacks in their royalty class......And Germany had whites, in their royalty class....Oh, and let's not forget about the japanese in Japan's royalty class.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 07:29 pm
and american had amerinds in their oops never mind.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 07:41 pm
dys, Thanks for the laugh. Wink c.i.
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Booman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 07:54 pm
(sniff)...he doesn't appreciate my gentle sarcasm, I'm crushed. Crying or Very sad
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2003 08:10 pm
Resource site

Great Zimbabwe
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2003 11:08 am
cicerone imposter, no Aztec ever lived in Cuzco or Macchu-Pichu. Many Incas did, though.
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2003 11:34 am
The present situation in Sub-Saharan Africa with its eccentric and corrupt rulers that look monsters even if compared to Saddam Hussein (take, for example, such cannibals as Bocassa and Idi Amin; I know that they do not rule any more, but less famous dictators and tribal chiefs compete with them in insanity level), makes me sceptical about prospects of any aid to the population of these countries. Any humanitarian shipment will be stolen by the governments of the countries and sold on the black market (or anti-governmental rebels, not less savage than their opponents, will loot it). Activities of humanitarian missions there are extremely dangerous due to permanent war of everyone against everyone.
The only solution that I see is non-realistic. It implies restoration of the British, French, Belgian, etc. colonial empires. But I have strong doubts that any of the nations mentioned is willing and able to take a civilizers' burden once more...
I want to protect myself from possible accusations in racism. I do not consider that Black people are biologically inferior to any other race. But their societies in Africa have not achieved the stage in development when establishment of the national states is possible, they are still on the tribal stage of development, the stage that Europeans have passed thousands years ago. Therefore, independence that majority of Sub-Saharan countries were granted in '60s is greater evil than the so-called "colonial oppression". There are some exceptions, e.g., Kenya, but in general, independence brought problems that the newborn nations are unable to solve.
C.I., Egypt is not a good example of an African country: technically, it is an Arab country, together with Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, etc. Arabs have problems of their own, the problems that do not make it possible to establish democratic regimes, but disadvantages of their regimes do not resemble total chaos happening to the South from the Sahara desert. Since African dictators and warlords do not endanger the civilized world in the way Saddam or Taliban do, no one plans to replace them by force...
I want to propose an interesting link on the African Problems[/i] from the Web site of the former South African that knows the situation from inside.
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