9
   

Need help tearing down creationist.

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Oct, 2008 05:51 pm
@Foxfyre,
I think that more likely myself Foxy but I'm not absolutely certain and until scientists prove otherwise I'm staying neutral.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Oct, 2008 06:06 pm
@Merry Andrew,
Quote:
Boy, you really got my attention with that one. "...[A] human and a neanderthal could not" have children together? W here'd you get that one? There is hardly any concensus of opinion among anthropologists over whether or not


Yeah there is:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_/ai_17199047

http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0020421&ct=1

http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0020057

http://www.expressindia.com/news/fe/daily/19970712/19355423.html

Quote:
Comparisons with the DNA of modern humans and of apes showed the Neanderthal was about halfway between a modern human and a chimpanzee.


http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2001/C/200113614.html

At the very least any offspring arising from neanderthal/human crossbreeding would have been sterile like mules. As Shreeve notes, you had the two groups living in close proximity for long periods of time and ZERO remains of any sort of crossbreed type which was a huge mystery until the DNA studies in the late 1990s. The reasonable conclusion is that it was not possible.









Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Oct, 2008 09:49 pm
@gungasnake,
Very impressive list of links, gunga. However, I said there was no concensus. I could probably add to your list some others who also believe that the two sub-species were genetically incompatible. Savante Paabo at the University of Munich, for example, used an arm bone from the original Neanderthal man whose remains were discovered in the Neander Valley back in the 19th century to extract a tiny 378-letter snippet of mitochondrial DNA back in 1997. He found that the DNA from the 40,000 year old specimen differed so sharply from that of living humans today that interbreeding would not be possible. Paabo has quite a few followers.

But a 378 letter snippet is such an infinitessimal sample, it hardly represents overwhelming evidence, let alone incontrovertible evidence. Other researchers aren't anywhere near as certain as Paabo. Paleoanthropoligist Erik Trinkaus, doing research for Washington University, St. Louis, for example, has come to the conclusion that "the basic behavior [of the two groups] is pretty much the same and any differences are likely to have been subtle." Trinhaus believes they could, indeed, have mated occasionally.

"Why not?" he has been quoted as saying. "Humans are not known to be choosy. Sex happens." He sees evidence for such an admixture in fossils recovered in Portugal and in Romania. One is a skeleton of a child from 24,500 years ago, the other a skull from about 52,000 years ago.

The question is still open to serious argument.
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2008 12:37 am
@spendius,
lol, this one nerd i know, he loves chess.

he is what i would call crazy.

WHAT THE F** DID U SAY!?!?!?!?! picks up chair and proceeds to bash someone with it until we grab him.

weird. video games, i think.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2008 04:12 am
@Merry Andrew,
You should read that article of Shreeve's. It was written just before the DNA evidence came in. It describes the total lack of any fossil evidence of crossbreeding and describes just how huge a mystery that would be if in fact crossbreeding were possible.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2008 11:36 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

But alas, I am also not a Deist. I believe that if there was a big bang, the Creator packed the explosives and lit the fuse (metaphorically speaking) and that He has continued to be involved in His creation. So we will just have to continue to agree to disagree on that one.


that's okay, still closer to it than we were. one step at a time babe. Wink
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2008 06:02 am
I've always found these guys helpful...

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

New Propulsion, the "EM Drive" - Question by TomTomBinks
The Science Thread - Discussion by Wilso
Why do people deny evolution? - Question by JimmyJ
Are we alone in the universe? - Discussion by Jpsy
Fake Science Journals - Discussion by rosborne979
Controvertial "Proof" of Multiverse! - Discussion by littlek
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/19/2024 at 10:12:01