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Biden, Israel, and Iran

 
 
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 06:52 am
Two stories in the news this weekend:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1017129.html

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219913194872&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Being a demoKKKrat in today's world has to be sort of like being one of Peter Pan's boys; it clearly means never having to grow up, and never having to deal with reality as it actually lies.

What we have here is an existential threat to Israel which cannot be dealt with at all until five seconds after the polls close on Nov 2 for fear of handing the United States over to the lunatic demoKKKrats and that Chicago political machine which is the closest thing we have in our modern world to Tammany Hall.

I just hope that the attack is set to go five seconds after polls actually close and that the USAF is involved, and that the attack is in time. It would be dishonorable to allow Israel to tackle this one alone.
 
rabel22
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 08:57 am
@gungasnake,
Screw Israel. Most of the problems that they have are self inflected by thier I am superman and you are shyt policies they have toward the palistianians. Israel has had chances to come to terms with palistian but always find a way at the last second to get around an agreement. The radicals on both sides know all it takes is a gunshot or a bomb by someone to stop any agreement. They want the whole of palistian to be only for Jews and Jewish religion. No more money and american lives for jewish policies. A hopeless wish because both the republicans and democrates seem to do as thier told by the jewish lobbey in washington. I also hope that if there is a war you are the first to have to go fight it. Judgeing from Bush and Cheney republicans are more than willing to fight wars as long as they dont have to be involved in the shooting.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 12:28 pm
@rabel22,
What rabel said; Israel is not a democracy by any stretch of anybody's imagination. It's an apartheid state run by extremist Jews.

Palestinians will never be equals in Israel; with equal rights to property and the laws.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2008 01:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The reason for a Jewish state is plain enough: No Jews died in the 1940s because they could not get out of Germany or Nazi-controlled territories; several millions of them died because they could not get INTO other countries, and they're not asking for a hell of a lot. They're basically asking to be left alone in their ancestral homeland which, as Mark Twain noted in the late 1800s, was sitting there empty until Zionists started settling it at that point.

There are no more than a tiny handful of slammite arabs living in Israeli territory with any family history of being there more than about 80 years. What you have is a mad rush to squeeze into this territory once it started to look like somebody else might want to live there, and all you're talking about is a tiny sliver of land which you have to know precisely where to look for on a map to even find.

A look at a map tells the whole story: you see a gigantic swath of territory stretching from the wall of China to the west coast of Africa and about forty degrees of lattitude up and down which is the slammite world, and then the tiny sliver which is Israel:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Muslim_World.JPG/800px-Muslim_World.JPG

And we've heard this relentless crybaby act for the last sixty years over the tiny sliver.

The real question is, why do the Israelis tolerate it? No other serious country would.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Sep, 2008 12:34 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
The reason for a Jewish state is plain enough: No Jews died in the 1940s because they could not get out of Germany or Nazi-controlled territories; several millions of them died because they could not get INTO other countries, and they're not asking for a hell of a lot. They're basically asking to be left alone in their ancestral homeland which, as Mark Twain noted in the late 1800s, was sitting there empty until Zionists started settling it at that point.

Ironically, the Zionists themselves, like David Ben Gurion, thwarted efforts to relocate Ashkenazi refugees to other countries. His relocation efforts were aimed not at relocating Ashen victims of the Nazis per se, but specifically at populating Palestine with Ashkenazim so as to increase the "Jewish" population therein. Many Ashkenazim who could have been relocated to countries other than Palestine died because of the policies of these Zionists.

During a Mapai (Zionist political party) committee meeting a few days after kristallnacht had been perpetrated in November of 1938, David Ben Gurion commented:
Were I to know that all German Jewish children could be rescued by transferring them to England and only half by transfer to Palestine, I would opt for the latter, because our concern is not only the personal interest of these children, but the historic interest of the Jewish people.

Quoting Mark Twain as to the demographics of a region amounts to just about complete irrelevancy. In a report to Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern political Zionism, written prior to the Second Zionist Congress, Leo Motzkin wrote:
Completely accurate statistics about the number of inhabitants do not presently exist. One must admit that the density of the population does not give the visitor much cause for cheer. In whole stretches throughout the land one constantly comes across large Arab villages, and it is an established fact that the most fertile areas of our country are occupied by Arabs... (Protocol of the Second Zionist Congress, Pg. 103).

It is interesting to note that this ethnocentrism zealot from Russia referred to the land he was surveying, this land whose most fertile areas were populated with Arab villiages as "our country."

Quote:
There are no more than a tiny handful of slammite arabs living in Israeli territory with any family history of being there more than about 80 years.

The same can be said of the Ashkenazi Jews out of whom the Zionists sprang.

Quote:
What you have is a mad rush to squeeze into this territory once it started to look like somebody else might want to live there, and all you're talking about is a tiny sliver of land which you have to know precisely where to look for on a map to even find.

Actually, the early Zionists, the Zionists of the First Aliyah, actively hired large numbers of Arab workers in the areas the former began to populate. The socialist idea of Kibbush Ha'avoda (conquest of labor), developed with the Zionists of the Second Aliyah who stressed the need for a Jewish workforce that would provide the labor for the Zionist enterprise in Palestine. Even then, the number of Ashkenazi laborers remained small, and only changed the demographics of the areas where Ashkenazi settlers were concentrated.

Quote:
A look at a map tells the whole story: you see a gigantic swath of territory stretching from the wall of China to the west coast of Africa and about forty degrees of latitude up and down which is the slammite world, and then the tiny sliver which is Israel:

And we've heard this relentless crybaby act for the last sixty years over the tiny sliver.

The real question is, why do the Israelis tolerate it? No other serious country would.


Gigantic swaths of territory from here to there, up and down and all around where Muslims live have absolutely zero bearing on the crux of the conflict in Israel/Palestine which is the Zionists' oppression and discrimination of the Palestinian people in the name of the perpetuation of the ethnocentric Zionist state.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2008 05:50 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Ironically, the Zionists themselves, like David Ben Gurion, thwarted efforts to relocate Ashkenazi refugees to other countries. His relocation efforts were aimed not at relocating Ashen victims of the Nazis per se, but specifically at populating Palestine with Ashkenazim so as to increase the "Jewish" population therein. Many Ashkenazim who could have been relocated to countries other than Palestine died because of the policies of these Zionists.


Bullshit. It's a known fact that we (the U.S.) turned boatloads of these people back from our shores, the Aussies who were in danger of being overrun for simple lack of manpower said "We have no racial problems in Australia now and have no intention of importing any", and Hitler offered to send all European Jews to any place which would take them in luxury liners. FDR's prolonging of the worldwide economic depression with his idiot interventionist policies didn't help the situation and any sort of a wet dream which one or two Zionists might have been having about getting all of those people into Palestine is irrelevant; they were NOT trying to commit suicide by staying in Nazi territory.

Quote:
Quoting Mark Twain as to the demographics of a region amounts to just about complete irrelevancy.


More bullshit, that's highly relevant and general enough that you can't blame what he saw on any sort of a then-recent military action since he was describing the entire territory , e.g. (for a flavor of it):

Quote:

So ends the pilgrimage. We ought to be glad that we did not make it for
the purpose of feasting our eyes upon fascinating aspects of nature, for
we should have been disappointed--at least at this season of the year. A
writer in "Life in the Holy Land" observes:
Quote:

"Monotonous and uninviting as much of the Holy Land will appear to
persons accustomed to the almost constant verdure of flowers, ample
streams and varied surface of our own country, we must remember that
its aspect to the Israelites after the weary march of forty years
through the desert must have been very different."


Which all of us will freely grant. But it truly is "monotonous and
uninviting," and there is no sufficient reason for describing it as being
otherwise.

Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be
the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are
unpicturesque in shape. The valleys are unsightly deserts fringed with a
feeble vegetation that has an expression about it of being sorrowful and
despondent. The Dead Sea and the Sea of Galilee sleep in the midst of a
vast stretch of hill and plain wherein the eye rests upon no pleasant
tint, no striking object, no soft picture dreaming in a purple haze or
mottled with the shadows of the clouds. Every outline is harsh, every
feature is distinct, there is no perspective--distance works no
enchantment here. It is a hopeless, dreary, heart-broken land.

Small shreds and patches of it must be very beautiful in the full flush
of spring, however, and all the more beautiful by contrast with the far-
reaching desolation that surrounds them on every side. I would like much
to see the fringes of the Jordan in spring-time, and Shechem, Esdraelon,
Ajalon and the borders of Galilee--but even then these spots would seem
mere toy gardens set at wide intervals in the waste of a limitless
desolation.

Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a
curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies. Where
Sodom and Gomorrah reared their domes and towers, that solemn sea now
floods the plain, in whose bitter waters no living thing exists--over
whose waveless surface the blistering air hangs motionless and dead--
about whose borders nothing grows but weeds, and scattering tufts of
cane, and that treacherous fruit that promises refreshment to parching
lips, but turns to ashes at the touch. Nazareth is forlorn; about that
ford of Jordan where the hosts of Israel entered the Promised Land with
songs of rejoicing, one finds only a squalid camp of fantastic Bedouins
of the desert; Jericho the accursed, lies a moldering ruin, to-day, even
as Joshua's miracle left it more than three thousand years ago; Bethlehem
and Bethany, in their poverty and their humiliation, have nothing about
them now to remind one that they once knew the high honor of the
Saviour's presence; the hallowed spot where the shepherds watched their
flocks by night, and where the angels sang Peace on earth, good will to
men, is untenanted by any living creature, and unblessed by any feature
that is pleasant to the eye. Renowned Jerusalem itself, the stateliest
name in history, has lost all its ancient grandeur, and is become a
pauper village; the riches of Solomon are no longer there to compel the
admiration of visiting Oriental queens; the wonderful temple which was
the pride and the glory of Israel, is gone, and the Ottoman crescent is
lifted above the spot where, on that most memorable day in the annals of
the world, they reared the Holy Cross. The noted Sea of Galilee, where
Roman fleets once rode at anchor and the disciples of the Saviour sailed
in their ships, was long ago deserted by the devotees of war and
commerce, and its borders are a silent wilderness; Capernaum is a
shapeless ruin; Magdala is the home of beggared Arabs; Bethsaida and
Chorazin have vanished from the earth, and the "desert places" round
about them where thousands of men once listened to the Saviour's voice
and ate the miraculous bread, sleep in the hush of a solitude that is
inhabited only by birds of prey and skulking foxes.

Palestine is desolate and unlovely. And why should it be otherwise? Can
the curse of the Deity beautify a land?


0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  3  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2008 05:58 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:

Quote:
There are no more than a tiny handful of slammite arabs living in Israeli territory with any family history of being there more than about 80 years.


The same can be said of the Ashkenazi Jews out of whom the Zionists sprang.


The difference, a huge one, is that the Jews have the prior claim on the territory, which is historical and real.

For that matter, large numbers of people in other lands ended up moving and relocating in the aftermath of WW-II: millions of Germans were moved out of the Sudetenland, the massive transfer of populations needed to create Pakistan took place and several other kinds of things one could name before you even start talking about land which Jews left in and around the middle east in coming to Israel and what we hear is that of all the peoples of the world, slammite arabs are somehow or other too good to ever move or make way for any sort of a greater cause, even when the amount of territory in question is a minuscule sliver as mentioned and they have the world's most gigantic piece of habitable land to move to again as noted.

Part of the problem is the "palestinians" themselves; if they were reasonable or rational people they'd have been assimilated long since. In actual fact they've ruined at least two arab countries and threaten to ruin others should anybody ever make the mistake of trying to help or assimilate them in their present form.
rabel22
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2008 07:31 am
@gungasnake,
So the jews have a hisorical claim on the palistianian territory that superseeds all other claims. When are you going to give up your land to the american Indians. They were here thousands of years before our european ansestors and so have a historical claim to the whole of north america.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2008 06:30 pm
@rabel22,
Yup, gungas should go directly to Israel; do not pass GO, and pay $200.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 12:43 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Bullshit. It's a known fact that we (the U.S.) turned boatloads of these people back from our shores, the Aussies who were in danger of being overrun for simple lack of manpower said "We have no racial problems in Australia now and have no intention of importing any", and Hitler offered to send all European Jews to any place which would take them in luxury liners. FDR's prolonging of the worldwide economic depression with his idiot interventionist policies didn't help the situation and any sort of a wet dream which one or two Zionists might have been having about getting all of those people into Palestine is irrelevant; they were NOT trying to commit suicide by staying in Nazi territory.


What's bullshit is this asenine non-sequitur.
That "we (the US) turned boatloads of these people back from our shores" doesn't negate the fact that Zionists like David Ben Gurion were more interested in the Zionist enterprise, getting "Jews" settled in Palestine, than saving the Ashkenazi victims of the Nazis by petitioning to have them relocated to other places.
That "the Aussies who were in danger of being overrun for simple lack of manpower said 'We have no racial problems in Australia now and have no intention of importing any'" does not negate the fact that the Zionist leadership was more interested in the Zionist enterprise, getting "Jews" settled in Palestine, than saving the Ashkenazi victims of the Nazis by petitioning to have them relocated to other places.
That "Hitler offered to send all European Jews to any place which would take them in luxury liners" does not negate the fact that the Zionist leadership was more interested in the Zionist enterprise, getting "Jews" settled in Palestine, than saving the Ashkenazi victims of the Nazis by petitioning to have them relocated to other places.
That "FDR's prolonging of the worldwide economic depression with his idiot interventionist policies didn't help the situation and any sort of a wet dream which one or two Zionists might have been having about getting all of those people into Palestine is irrelevant; they were NOT trying to commit suicide by staying in Nazi territory" does not negate the fact that the Zionist leadership was more interested in the Zionist enterprise, getting "Jews" settled in Palestine, than saving the Ashkenazi victims of the Nazis by petitioning to have them relocated to other places.

In his book Jewish State or Israeli Nation? Israeli writer Boas Evron writes of the research conducted by another Israeli writer, Beit Zvi, into the Zionist leadership's thwarting of the rescue of Ashkenazi victims of the Nazis:
Beit Zvi documents the Zionist leadership's indifference to saving Jews from the Nazi menace except in cases in which the Jews could be brought to Palestine. He points out that during World War II and the catastrophe that hit European Jewry, out of all the members of the Zionist leadership, only a second-echelon leader, Ytzhak Greenbaum, was named to conduct rescue operations in Europe. (Front-rank leaders, from Chaim Wiezmann and Devid Ben-Gurion to Moshe Shertok [later Sharett], Eliyahu Golomb,and Shaul Avigur, were engaged in matters they deemed more important--land settlement, economic and military growth, the mobilization of political and financial support for the Yishuv, etc.) He analyzes the Evian conference, convened at the initiative of President Roosevelt on the eve of the war in order to find havens of refuge for the persecuted Jews of Europe. Zionist organs and spokesmen gloated over the failure of the conference, citing it as proof that only Eretz Israel could serve as a refuge for Jews (conveniently ignoring that even under the best of conditions, no room could have been found at the time in Palestine for more than a few hundred thousand refugees from Nazi Europe). He describes the dismay that spread through the movement lest the conference succeed and the efforts expended to sabotage it. He points out that the attitude of the Latin American countries toward the Jewish refugee problem was characterized by a readiness to open their gates to the refugees. If the gates were later closed, it was because , being mostly poor, underdeveloped countries, they were incapable of rapidly admitting large numbers of people and providing them with means of livelihood. The most outstanding example he cites is the readiness of the dictator of the Dominican Republic, Rafael Trujillo, to absorb one hundred thousand refugees and the sabotaging of this idea--as well as others, like proposals to settle the Jews in Alaska and the Philippines--by the Zionist movement.(p.160)

Thanks for providing the Twain text. It makes it easier to point out your stupidly egregious misinterpretation. Twain didn't say that Palestine was:
Quote:
sitting there empty
he was describing the ruins of ancient sites in that region, e.g."Where Sodom and Gomorrah reared their domes and towers, that solemn sea now floods the plain, in whose bitter waters no living thing exists." Well no ****, the Dead Sea is many times saltier than the world's oceans. In the cases of the other sites like Nazareth, Jericho, Bethlehem, and Bethany--which were inhabited during his time--he wasn't saying that they were
Quote:
sitting there empty
he was opining upon their inhabited condition, in his view "their poverty and their humiliation." In the case of Jerusalem, which was also inhabited, he refers to it as having become a "pauper village." He refers to Magdala as "the home of beggared Arabs."

Twain's opinions of Palestine are quite contrary to Leo Motzkin's observations.

Quote:
The difference, a huge one, is that the Jews have the prior claim on the territory, which is historical and real.

This prior claim amounts to a lot of religionist mythology. The Ashkenazim are a mix of European, Asian and Semitic peoples. To claim that they have an "historical and real" claim on the territory is, to say the very least, a stretch.

Quote:
For that matter, large numbers of people in other lands ended up moving and relocating in the aftermath of WW-II: millions of Germans were moved out of the Sudetenland, the massive transfer of populations needed to create Pakistan took place and several other kinds of things one could name before you even start talking about land which Jews left in and around the middle east in coming to Israel and what we hear is that of all the peoples of the world, slammite arabs are somehow or other too good to ever move or make way for any sort of a greater cause, even when the amount of territory in question is a minuscule sliver as mentioned and they have the world's most gigantic piece of habitable land to move to again as noted.

Yet another asinine non-sequitur. That large numbers of people in other lands ended up moving and relocating in the aftermath of WWII does not address the crux of the conflict in Israel/Palestine: the Zionists' discrimination and oppression of the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people show no sign of giving up their demand for their rights and justice anytime soon, ridiculous non-sequiturs of "assimilation" notwithstanding.
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