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Spring driven car?

 
 
Chai
 
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 12:27 pm
Contest - Create the Future



I saw an editorial cartoon the other day, which had a car with one of those toy keys in the back for windup.

I figured someone had come up with that idea already, but Wally told me something like that would take up too much space.
I just looked on the internet, and saw one of those sites with a contest for producing something of benefit to the world...below is the text.

I don't understand how the reciprocation of the piston can be maintained if the initial force that drives the piston down come from a solar powered 12 V battery. It say afterwards the motion of the piston is "regulated by the 12 V battery".

Would that mean an assist on every single stroke of the piston?

What about if the 12 V battery causes the piston to move downward, providing energy to the spring turning the crankshaft, then as the power of the spring raises the piston, that motion stores energy in a spring attached to the top of the piston.

When the piston reaches its high point, the stored energy of the spring above would drive it back down to the crankshaft spring.


Also, these contests to develope stuff to change the world? What do we use right now that is the product of one of the winners of these contents?

I am curious (Chai)



A FUEL-LESS ENGINE Category: Transportation

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sanjeev kumar
M.I.T. INDIA
MUZAFFARPUR, IN Page Views: 326
Ranked: 15 / 178 Entered: 07/10/2008

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Name of the project:A fuel less Engine, Principle :Spring energy generates power to rotate crank shaft. Working :Piston compresses the spring, due to compression of Spring coil, energy generates and this energy forces the Piston to move upward and again due to inertia of piston. Piston moves downward and compress the spring.Thus Reciprocation of Piston is maintained . Initial forced movement of Piston to compress the Spring and afterwrad motion of Piston is regulated by 12v Battery . This battery derives rotor .Rotor rotates the pully On crank shaft and consequently piston compress the Spring. When we required high power to be developed by engine. We Should compress the spring with high velocityof piston .The High velocity piston is obtained by giving high voltage through Battery. Mathematical calculation and comparision with conventional engine: ENERGY COMPARISION : Let us take a conventional engine of 1100 cc six cylinder with following Data : Power 40 kW at 4400r.p.m. Mean effective pressure = 1N/ mm2 (developed by explosion of petrol ) Hence Energy developed by one cylinder = 1100/6 x (100)3 x 106 N-m =183.33J Take WP 180J The Innovated engine with spring stiffness K=16N/mm and displacement of spring X=150mm develops the same energy Since Ws = 1/2 kx2 = ½ x16x1000x (0.15)2 Nm = 180J That means as much amount energy generated by explosion of petrol , the same energy Generated by compression of spring. FORCE COMPARISION Force developed within cylinder due to ignition of petrol = mean effective pressure x c/s area of cylinder Fp = Pe x 3.14/4 D2 Lets us take L = 1.3D For 1100cc six cylinder engine 1100/6 x (100)3 m3 = 3.14/4 D2 L D = 0.055 m = 55mm L = 70MM FP = 1x 3.14/4 (55)2 Fp = 2374N And force developed by Innovated engine. FS = K x = 16 x 150 = 2400N That means, force generated by explosion of petrol = 2374N And the nearly equal amount of force can be generated by compression of spring. Result :- The final result is that as much amount of energy and force generated by explosion of petrol , The nearly same amount of energy can be generated by compression of spring Note :- (1) Battery is charged by alternator or Solar Power battery can be used.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 6,507 • Replies: 15
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 12:36 pm
Interesting. I listened to this guy being interviewed on the radio last week. Fascinating interview.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 12:51 pm
Personally, I don't understand why one would need a piston at all.




SF writers have been playing with the idea of spring-drive engines for some time. More along the lines of a whole bunch of very tiny springs, though.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 01:01 pm
Was wondering exactly the same thing, DrewDad. It would be exactly equivalant to batteries turning an engine while operating a lubrication system and cranking a bunch of valves - instead of going directly to some sort of transmission. Sounds like Rube Goldberg all over again.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 01:04 pm
http://www.lowridermagazine.com/videos/57/6202809/index.html
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 01:16 pm
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Interesting. I listened to this guy being interviewed on the radio last week. Fascinating interview.


Wow, 400 HP, and 110 MPG...

I would like to see more on what he did.

Was it a 6 or an 8 to start with, Gus?
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 01:24 pm
wow, I feel like one of the guys.

drewdad, what do you mean by a bunch of tiny springs?

roger, since I only have the basics of of how an engine works, i.e. piston, crankshaft etc.....I'm not sure what you mean about going directly to some sort of transmission.

Do you mean like battery power?

I like the concept of the stored energy in a coil, that can be renewed internally without much outside input.

I figure if everyone started using electricity to run their cars, the cost of the batteries, or using electricity from the grid to charge the car, would skyrocket.

We'd be no better off monetarily than before.

comments?
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 01:29 pm
Rockhead wrote:
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Interesting. I listened to this guy being interviewed on the radio last week. Fascinating interview.


Wow, 400 HP, and 110 MPG...

I would like to see more on what he did.

Was it a 6 or an 8 to start with, Gus?


Eight
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 01:40 pm
Chai wrote:
wow, I feel like one of the guys.

drewdad, what do you mean by a bunch of tiny springs?

Something along the line of a battery, but with bazillions of nano-scale springs.

Chai wrote:
roger, since I only have the basics of of how an engine works, i.e. piston, crankshaft etc.....I'm not sure what you mean about going directly to some sort of transmission.

Pistons are necessary to convert the pressure of the explosion into mechanical energy. (See here.)


If your device already has mechanical energy, then the piston becomes as necessary as teats on a bull.

(The new Tesla roadster, which uses battery power and an electric motor, only has something like six moving parts in its drive train. Compare that to the hundreds of moving parts on a conventional internal combustion engine.)


Chai wrote:
I figure if everyone started using electricity to run their cars, the cost of the batteries, or using electricity from the grid to charge the car, would skyrocket.

We'd be no better off monetarily than before.

comments?

Generating electricity is much more efficient than internal combustion engines. Furthermore, it can be done using a variety of sources (solar, hydroelectric, nuclear, wind, fossil fuel).
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 01:55 pm
Ah....but the bastard AKA "The Man" would find some way to jack up the price.




I'm sick and tired of The Man.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2008 07:47 am
@Chai,
"The Man" ain't gonna be gettin' anything from me, once I get this fusion reactor going.
0 Replies
 
corpsejunky
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 01:09 am
@Chai,
if using spring power, the design of the engine would not be piston powered. Instead the design would be more reminiscent of the jet turbines that you see in the Hydroplane race boats. I recently have been thinking of a spring powered engine for the automobile, but its use( given rudimentary knowldge of spring power and longevity of maintained power) would be more as a secondary motor with gasoline power, compressed gas power, or tertiary with an electric gasoline hybrid vehicle.
corpsejunky
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 01:29 am
@DrewDad,
Back in High school Auto shop , I had this teacher that showed us a motor that consisted of a propeller suspended between to vertical rods with a piston device on each rod.
That device was bolted onto a 8" disk that was separated into 2 layers; black on top, and white on bottom. The disk was maybe 1/2" thick and felt like a nylon or polycarbonate type substance. He set this device on top of his fresh cup of coffee and tapped the prop with his finger. With this motion the propeller began to spin with gradually given speed, rapidly given a moment.
He raised the device a few feet from his coffee cup and the engine ran much slower. When he placed an ice cube underneath, the engine came back to life with force.

Anyone know what that device is called?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Mar, 2013 01:30 am
@corpsejunky,
There was also some developement project using a flywheel to store the power. It sounded good, but I haven't heard a thing about it in years.
0 Replies
 
Ravikmd
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2014 08:38 am
@corpsejunky,
LTD stirling engine.
0 Replies
 
carloslebaron
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2014 07:12 pm
I am a "do it yourself" person when car repairs is about.

Lets go to the spring.

The force needed for the task of moving the vehicle from rest is the greater, and the same will apply when the car goes in acceleration.

The springs must be made of a material that will have, flexibility, resistance, durability, and so forth. The force used in gasoline cars is "explosion" and is almost identical each time, we can notice how powerful the springs must have to become in order to reach such a level of strength, and be capable to meet a similar event.

In case that no material can fit for a durability of more than 30,000 miles for those springs, how easy will be their replacement as part of a regular maintenance of the vehicle?
0 Replies
 
 

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