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Is this system best for my home?

 
 
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 11:22 am
Hello, I am new here so please be gentle. I had a small tantrum when I was browsing this forum last night, I hope I didn't ruffle anyone's feathers; I'm impressed by all the knowledge here but rifling through the arguments was frustrating me.

Anyway, I hope you all will be generous enough to give your advice. Smile

I had a rep from an Ecowater/Water-Right dealer come to test my water last night (free, yes) and have a look at my home. I live in a small home with a private well. My personal "layman's" issues with my well water are 1.red-brown staining, 2.sulfur odor, 3.metal taste/odor, 4.hardness, and 5.hard-to-remove white scaling.

Here were the results of his tests:

pH: 7.5
Iron (ferrous): 1.0
TDS: 100
Hardness: 5 gpg

*I gave him 35 dollars and a bottle of water to have it tested for V.O.C.

Question1: The first hardness test he took showed 10 gpg, but said "the iron dissolved in the water was interefering with the results", and his second test resulted in 5 gpg. Is this theoretically true?

Question2: He did not officially test sulphur content, but "trusted his nose" to say it was a moderate amount (1.0 - 2.0). Is sulphur content harmful other than to cause unppleasant odor - for instance, does it cause a lot of staining, and is it worth it to have sulphur offically tested if I'm already going to be taking care of an iron problem?

His system recommendation is as follows:
- Water-Right IMS 1054 (to take care of my iron and sulphur issues)
- EcoWater ESS2000 R30 (to soften the water after the Water-Right filter does its job)
* The combined cost of both systems installed together, including labor and plumbing, is $3198.00

Again, my home is small and 2 adults live there.

Question3: This seems like a fair price for a local dealer and for the systems. What do you all think of the price? The warranty is pretty standard and the systems claim to last 10-15 years. (*I am not looking to just save money, of course - I want to know what the best, most cost-effective solution is for my home, even if it does cost a bit more... but I also do want to know if I can save a few hundred dollars that I don't need to be handing over unecessarily.)

Question4: What do you all recommend as alternatives to this setup - any brand, any dealer is fine, I'm still totally open to suggestions. I live in PA, if that helps. Or if you think this is a perfect setup, that's ok too. Smile

I guess that's about it for now. Thanks for taking the time to give me your opinions.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 5,318 • Replies: 18
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meechity
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 11:31 am
I forgot to mention, I already have a 10-year-old softener installed that I'm not currently using.

It's a Marlo ML series - the resin is totally shot (chocolate milk water). It's got a manual float to regulate salt amount, and a 6-day regeneration timer (doens't meter the water use, you just set a day or days, or regenerate manually).

All the plumbing/drainage/bypass is set up, though.

Is this Marlo softener system worth buying new resin for, or is it just totally obsolete?
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 11:55 am
meechity wrote:
Is this Marlo softener system worth buying new resin for, or is it just totally obsolete?


Any timer based softener will be less efficient than contemporary "on demand" softener designs. You're wise to look at replacing that Marlo.

Might want to get another two or three local water treatment pros in there to inspect the site and install, and quote you on your needs.

Ask your neighbors what they're doing for water treatment. They may recommend someone or tell you who to avoid.

Do your homework... it will pay off down the road.
0 Replies
 
meechity
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 12:17 pm
I don't know what other homework I can do. My neighbors all have wells, but this is a redneck slum and no one treats water. "What's a little stink?" they say. My closest neighbor actually just has a rubber hose running to the creek between our houses. Seriously!

I was pretty sure I was going to replace the Marlo. Maybe I can donate it to charity... Razz

Due to the low water usage in my home I didn't think it was worth it to shell out for a system that measured water. And with iron in my water, I didn't want to accidentally overload the (softener?) resin with iron while the system was only calculating for hardness. Does that make sense? Maybe I am misunderstanding it the way the systems work?

I will have more pros come in and look - all that's left in my area is Culligan, I think.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 12:34 pm
meechity wrote:
I will have more pros come in and look - all that's left in my area is Culligan, I think.


Look in the phone book under water treatment for ads with no logos. They will usually be independent water treatment companies and will offer industry standard softeners.

On demand water softeners actually save you money. When properly sized for the installation and water conditions they make the most efficient use of salt and water. Actually on demand softeners are only marginally more expensive than timer based softeners and pay for the slight increase in cost pretty quickly.

Regardless of the number of people in your home the quality of the water you consume seems important to you (and it is) so let us know what other quotes you get so we might help.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 02:52 pm
The ECOwater system is top of the line and worth every penny.

Look for an independent H2O specialist that builds with Fleck valves if you don't have many pennies.
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 03:27 pm
Re: Is this system best for my home?
meechity wrote:


Here were the results of his tests:

pH: 7.5
Iron (ferrous): 1.0
TDS: 100
Hardness: 5 gpg

Question1: The first hardness test he took showed 10 gpg, but said "the iron dissolved in the water was interefering with the results", and his second test resulted in 5 gpg. Is this theoretically true?


Did he use a three-liquid test or a powder/liquid test? If his test tube was not properly cleaned prior to testing, it will show unusual level of iron. He should have done it a third time.

meechity wrote:
Question2: He did not officially test sulphur content, but "trusted his nose" to say it was a moderate amount (1.0 - 2.0). Is sulphur content harmful other than to cause unppleasant odor - for instance, does it cause a lot of staining, and is it worth it to have sulphur offically tested if I'm already going to be taking care of an iron problem?


There a few different sulfur test methods...including the nose... Since it is a gas, and, it comes and goes with different intensities according to different factors, tests at different times can show differ levels. Any systems that goes in should be adjustable or geared for higher levels.

Sulfur can corrode soft metals such copper, silver, brass, etc. It can also affect electronics in computers, TVs and other expensive applainces. It IS an irritant and you can become desensitized....but that is not a solution.

meechity wrote:
Question4: What do you all recommend as alternatives to this setup - any brand, any dealer is fine, I'm still totally open to suggestions. I live in PA, if that helps. Or if you think this is a perfect setup, that's ok too. Smile


Are you getting two systems from two different companies? That is a recipe for finger-pointer. Have you called Culligan or Kinetico? Fixing the old softener could be sending good money after bad.

meechity wrote:
I guess that's about it for now. Thanks for taking the time to give me your opinions.


You're welcome,

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 03:33 pm
The Water-Right IMS 1054 is nothing more than a 10 x 54 filter with Centaur Catalytic carbon in it and it looks like a Clack valve.

Centaur works, but I don't understand why the dealer does not use an ECOwater filter.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 07:36 pm
That filter is not a Centaur carbon filter, it is an IMAF-GS manganese greensand filter. You do not want to use Centaur to remove soluble iron.

That dealer sells for both Ecowater and Water-Right.

Yes iron in a water sample interferes with the correctness of the hardness test result.

meechity, do you want to be a DIYer and save like $1000 or do you want to be dependent on a local dealer for the sale, installation and future service?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 07:35 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
That filter is not a Centaur carbon filter, it is an IMAF-GS manganese greensand filter.


Sorry Slusser, wrong again.

IMS Series
Automatic Catalytic Media Filter
Solving Extreme Sulfur Odor Problems
Most all sulfur odors can be removed by the IMS catalytic sulfur
carbon filter.The catalytic sulfur carbon media bed works in
combination with an air charge chamber within the tank to oxidize
and filter the elements that cause sulfur odors and other unpleasant
ground water smells. At the programmed time, the system will
regenerate using ordinary water to backwash the system clean of
sulfur and other well water contaminants.
PDF



ECOwater has an air injection/Green sand system.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 10:28 am
You should note that there is no such filter on their web site.

Also, the date on the brochure (PDF) is 3/06 and the possibility exists that they do not use that filter now or it should be on their web site;
http://www.water-right.com/residential/filtration/im_filter/impression_filter.html

A number of years ago there were a number of air over water type filters like in the pdf/brochure you link to. I tried one myself, they didn't work but... on that pdf/brochure, there is no mention of using it for iron removal.

You can't run iron through a small amount of pressurized air without converting some iron and not removing all of the iron is why that type filter fails and Centaur will not remove much soluble iron. I would not use that filter or use Centaur in an attempt to remove soluble iron because IMO it won't last long without having problems, such as not removing the H2S it is supposed to along with possibly 'dirty' water problems.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2008 09:12 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
.

You can't run iron through a small amount of pressurized air without converting some iron and not removing all of the iron is why that type filter fails and Centaur will not remove much soluble iron. I would not use that filter or use Centaur in an attempt to remove soluble iron because IMO it won't last long without having problems, such as not removing the H2S it is supposed to along with possibly 'dirty' water problems.


Agreed, Centaur is not designed or used to reduce iron.

Catalytic carbon is used to reduce Hydrogen Sulfide gas and it does an excellent job.

The ECOwater Air system uses green sand and is much better suited to iron reduction.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2008 10:59 pm
AFAIK Centaur is the only catalytic carbon I know of and is still patented by the inventor, Calgon Carbon Pittsburgh PA.

Who makes your catalytic carbon?

_________________
Gary Slusser
21 yrs in water treatment and well pumps, 12 yrs on the 'net helping people help themselves.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 06:44 am
Centaur is the only game in town, are you selling something different?
0 Replies
 
meechity
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2008 11:51 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
meechity, do you want to be a DIYer and save like $1000 or do you want to be dependent on a local dealer for the sale, installation and future service?


Gary, I would like to do it myself if I can! Smile I have moderate intelligence (^_^), but also know people who can help me install a system for free or close to it. My house is also plumbed for a full-house system anyway. So I would love to take it on myself, if it's not too complicated or dangerous.

I basically am just getting as much info as I can from the local dealers. I did see the Ecowater pro use tiny silver foil packets of powder in conjuction with liquid drops, to do the testing.

The CULLIGAN Man was in Monday to do his battery of tests. The only big difference (to me) was that he measured my hardness at 3.0, not 5.0+. He also came up with a soluble iron content of 1.0. He recommended a softener ONLY, with a metered system. I asked him about the iron overloading the resin prematurely, but he said "not with your low iron content".

His suggestion was one of the following 2 systems:
1) Medallist Series softener (for 5-10 years of service*)
2) Gold Series softener (for 10-20 years of service*)

*He asked me how long I would be living in the house, and I said I wasn't sure, so he gave me 2 options.

I forgot to bring the estimates with me, but the prices were roughly 1400 for the Medallist, and 1800 for the Gold (I will edit this as soon as I am able) - all installation, a whole-house disinfection (basically running chlorine through my house pipes before first use), a tank full of salt, and one follow-up test within 3 months of installation.
0 Replies
 
meechity
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2008 11:59 am
Re: Is this system best for my home?
Andy CWS wrote:
Did he use a three-liquid test or a powder/liquid test? If his test tube was not properly cleaned prior to testing, it will show unusual level of iron. He should have done it a third time.


I think he used little foil powder packets in each of his tests, along with a liquid dripper. I didn't pay 100% attention. Sad He did the hardness test a total of twice, and got 5.0 the second time - still higher than the Culligan rep's test of 3.0.

Andy CWS wrote:
Are you getting two systems from two different companies? That is a recipe for finger-pointer. Have you called Culligan or Kinetico? Fixing the old softener could be sending good money after bad.


I won't be fixing the old softener, it's just too inefficient in my eyes. The Ecowater/Water-Right combo was offered by one rep from "Advanced Water Resources". HERE is their website.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2008 01:21 pm
Re: Is this system best for my home?
meechity wrote:
The Ecowater/Water-Right combo was offered by one rep from "Advanced Water Resources". HERE is their website.


I say go for it and make a deal with AWR.
0 Replies
 
meechity
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2008 01:11 pm
Re: Is this system best for my home?
H2O_MAN wrote:
I say go for it and make a deal with AWR.


Can you please tell me more about why you think that? I would appreciate it! Especially since the other company thinks I don't need anything but a softener. Smile

On another note, my "V.O.C." test results came back... I was a little perturbed to find the only things that were tested were e.coli (no present) and total coliform bacteria (present) - so my well failed the coliform bacteria test. Disgusting. I thought the V.O.C. tests were supposed to do a lot more than lest for bacteria.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2008 01:39 pm
A back washing filter with catalytic carbon followed by a softener may be all you need.
Much depends on how you plan to treat the bacteria contamination.
0 Replies
 
 

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