Is a utopia possible?

well in a sense, im talking about the world pre-government (and religion)

the 2 most evil things in existence.

hands down......

Questions:

1) Would you know what you were missing if you never had it in the first place?

2) What price is too high for societal harmony?

3) What are the assumptions underscoring the utility of societal systems as they are now understood?

Arguments:

1) There is nothing that inherently dictates societal normatives going forward, when the underpinnings of genetic engineering, cybernetics, robotics, and artificial intelligence are considered.

2) There is nothing that inherently dictates the requisite need for societies as we understand them now, when the underpinnings of (future) genetic engineering, cybernetics, robotics, and artificial intelligence are considered.

3) Man (or what Man might become) is an instrument to be formed with the music of his own hand.

I don't think humans-in-nature is a utopia as it a personification of human nature. It was (and probably still is) a human-eat-human world out there.

Chumly,

I think the best society would be the lack of one.

Humans are the problem, so get rid of them.

Need they be replaced?

You say it's about pre-government and religion, but that in and of itself is an impossible human environment.

Put another way, is heaven utopia? I've often thought about this; heaven without crime, no dessention, entertainment without conflicts about love-wars-gunfight at the ok coral-no Bullet-no James Dean-no history movies-no calendars-no drugs, smoking, drinking beer-and no sex. Walking on gold streets with all steel and glass architecture-and maybe a mud hut here and there for entertainment, and nobody ages.

Absolutely boring to live forever in utopia.

Hang on.

Why change the environment when one can change the mind itself?

I have thought about this often - you activate the pleasure part of the brain to the maximum, deactivate the boredom part, and you have a person who if in their own little utopia. Anything feeling that is required can be directly inserted into the brain.

Which leaves the question - is reality somehow different from what a person thinks they are experiencing? Personally, I think not. I highly doubt we are experiencing reality in it's purest - we can only have crude interpretations of it. So what is wrong with tricking someone's mind into thinking they're in utopia?

a person, Good point; a little drug or lotsa chocolate to feed that pleasure part of our brain. That'll still be untenable, because if it's not boring, it'll be the same thing over and over.

Ahem, that's aperson (no space). I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. The fact that it is repetitive is of no consequence if it does not cause boredom.

Reminds me of soma. I think, if the technology is avaliable, just hooking someone up to a machine would be better. Or even better, just have a brain in a vat, hooked up to a machine. But this brings me back to my previous point - why is the brain required? What is the point of the brain in the vat? It's a slippery slope. What is the point of anything? If you subscribe to nihilism, like me, the answer to that question is that there is none. Nothing that you or I do is of any real meaning. I think, if I could have it my way, I'd kill everyone and hook my own brain up to a machine.

If you were a teenager this would be described as "emo". At any rate, it's a grim outlook, but fortunately I don't hold it in practice.

In essence, sex is the same thing over and over, yet men on their deathbeds often recall their youthful sexuality with great fondness.

Only sex? LOL FYI, it's impossible for men to "perform" constantly 24/7 - even with viagra.

"Youth is wasted on the young" George Shaw

The last few posts remind me of the best definition of happiness I've ever heard. Happiness does not consist of getting what you want, but in wanting all the good things that you've got. Many of us already live in a sort of Utopia. We just have to become conscious of that fact.

I can even say that "my" utopia isn't too bad.

I do believe, however, that "eutopia" refers to a situation that is public, one that is larger than the subjective space of an individual. Eutopia is a place (a society), not a state of mind or private condition.

And you know as well as I that a society and utopia is an oxymoron.

Well, yes, insofar as societies exist and utopia's do not. They do not exist BY DEFINITION.

Utopia means noplace.
Eutopia means perfect place.

So in a literal sense, the answer to the topic of this thread is "yes, but only when you're dead."

Well, yes, insofar as one has no problems when he's dead. But that refers not to a form of ideal SOCIETY, only to a condition of MIND (and, of course, there is no mind once one has diedd).

I don't mind.

Not to worry, Chumly, I'll personally guarantee your demise or utopia. Bet ya I'll "get" mine before you!