Small minds vs Open minds

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I think that the large majority of the time theres a certain pressure to be open minded, especially with the whole liberal/labour pc trend.

I'm open minded, or so I like to think. And I think the key to open mindedness is realising the walls of your mind, your own subjectivity and how much you don't know.
Plus always remembering that the satanist who lives round the corner from you's beliefs are as real to him as yours are to you.

What annoys me is when people pressurize other people into being open minded. Am I right in diagnosing this as another form of small mindedness? Surely if you were truly open minded you would respect others small mindedness?
Sometimes I feel open mindedness can be used in such a way as to create 'groups' which destroy it's purpose.
'Oh! Look how open minded we are! Surely, you aren't as open minded as us!we're like soooo out there.'
These types of attitudes 'close off' being open.

Am I right or is this a pile of wank?

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I see what you mean..

And I wonder..

if someone is open minded, why are they required to accept another's beliefs if they dont fall in line with their own?

I like to think I am open minded too.
I HAVE a satanist that lives in the building behind me. Great kid actually.
But I dont agree with how he thinks. And to me it seems he is only looking for something to rebel against..

But.. why do I have to be completely accepting?
Isnt , NOT saying anything rude, and allowing someone space to speak their mind enough?

does my question make sense?

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Yeah, sometimes it can appear annoying that we're always the ones that have to bend. But then again, I think thats the great gift of being open minded, we can float through opinions, we're not easily upset by being rigid, and Id rather that.

I think it comes from recognizing our own subjectivity, we've got to understand that these people believe they are objectively right.

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The problem is when "open mindedness" turns into a kind of dogma of refusing to make anyone responsible for what they do. One can be "open minded" to different forms of religious expression, for example, but the egalitarian movement has gone way too far in suggesting that any and every way that a person chooses to express themself is equivalent. For example: Being open to forms of sexual expression is one thing, but calling pure hedonism "expression" is quite another.

I haven't gotten around to reading Shibumi by Trevanian, but I was reminded of this quote I've come across:

"It was not their irritating assumption of equality that annoyed Nicholai so much as their cultural confusions. The Americans seemed to confuse standard of living with quality of life, equal opportunity with institutionalized mediocrity, bravery with courage, machismo with manhood, liberty with freedom, wordiness with articulation, fun with pleasure - in short, all of the misconceptions common to those who assume that justice implies equality for all, rather than equality for equals."

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How about easy going. Meaning that when you agree you agree, when you do not agree you don't care, and when disagree you say so. Trying to be right, wrong, or neutral is boring and in my opinion not possible.

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Shouldn't your polarities be

large or grand mind vs. small or petty mind
and
open vs close mind
Question

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I think Pentacle is talking about us all not liking agrote's thread, closed as we are as a group. Not sure, but think so.

So, ok, I agree, I do have my own views that are not open to his.

Sorry, it is to laugh. Many of us here have contemplated views some others of us here haven't thought of yet. And so what? Sometimes some of those views are plain stupid. Lapping the stupid ones up is not a good route. And listening to the sharper ones can be instructive.

Tell us more re what is going on with you, Pentacle, not to push but if you're so inclined.

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Re: Small minds vs Open minds

The Pentacle Queen wrote:

I think that the large majority of the time theres a certain pressure to be open minded, especially with the whole liberal/labour pc trend.

I'm open minded, or so I like to think. And I think the key to open mindedness is realising the walls of your mind, your own subjectivity and how much you don't know.
Plus always remembering that the satanist who lives round the corner from you's beliefs are as real to him as yours are to you.

What annoys me is when people pressurize other people into being open minded. Am I right in diagnosing this as another form of small mindedness? Surely if you were truly open minded you would respect others small mindedness?
Sometimes I feel open mindedness can be used in such a way as to create 'groups' which destroy it's purpose.
'Oh! Look how open minded we are! Surely, you aren't as open minded as us!we're like soooo out there.'
These types of attitudes 'close off' being open.

Am I right or is this a pile of wank?

At our local library is an abstract sculpture with an engraved caption: "In order to function, a mind must be open." (or at least a reasonable facsimile of that.)

In my never-to-be-considered-humble opinion, however, open-mindedness is not defined as 'accepting' or 'conforming to' anything. Those who require you to think as they think in order for you to be deemed open minded and therefore acceptable are probably themselves the smallest minded or most close minded of all.

For me, open minded means being willing to HEAR another point of view, to consider its merits, to receive new information as much as possible without prejudice, and include all available information when making a value judgment or decision about such information. A mind that is made up is not necessarily closed; but once any new or different information is actively refused, the mind has closed, solidified, and noticably shrinks. Smile

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ossobuco wrote:

I think Pentacle is talking about us all not liking agrote's thread, closed as we are as a group. Not sure, but think so.

Seems obvious to me..

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In a democracy it is imperative that a sizable percentage of the population as a grasp of reality. In order to get to this point a person must be open to considering all the arguments and evidence advanced in debate, and once a determination is made must be always on the lookout for new information that raised enough questions about the determination that the question must be reconsidered. Society has a right to pressure individuals to be open minded because the survival of the society depends upon the creation of enough open minded individuals to function. Also depends upon the development of enough intelligent individuals to function, but that is another thread. I think that it is perfectly OK to tell the stupid and/or close minded that they are not pulling their weight.

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hawkeye10 wrote:

In a democracy it is imperative that a sizable percentage of the population as a grasp of reality. In order to get to this point a person must be open to considering all the arguments and evidence advanced in debate, and once a determination is made must be always on the lookout for new information that raised enough questions about the determination that the question must be reconsidered. Society has a right to pressure individuals to be open minded because the survival of the society depends upon the creation of enough open minded individuals to function. Also depends upon the development of enough intelligent individuals to function, but that is another thread. I think that it is perfectly OK to tell the stupid and/or close minded that they are not pulling their weight.

I don't disagree with you, but I think that was not Pentacle's issue here. I think s/he is protesting having to agree with somebody in order to be judged to be open minded. In other words, is it not close minded to require a person to agree with you in order to be open minded?

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Comments like the above is what I call pontify.

Just in case, here's the definition from the Collins:

Pontify, pontificate; act as Pontiff; speak bombastically.

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Francis wrote:

Comments like the above is what I call pontify.

Just in case, here's the definition from the Collins:

Pontify, pontificate; act as Pontiff; speak bombastically.

And would you say that it is open minded or closed minded to conclude that a person is pontificating rather than consider and address what the person is saying?

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Foxfyre wrote:

I don't disagree with you, but I think that was not Pentacle's issue here. I think s/he is protesting having to agree with somebody in order to be judged to be open minded. In other words, is it not close minded to require a person to agree with you in order to be open minded?

I get that all the time too, it is the MTV generation idiocy. Open mindedness is confused with fenatical relativism, where it is believed that every opinion is of equal weight, where not agreeing that some nutty proposition is equally as valid as your well considered and investigated opinion makes you close minded. My advice in these cases is to move on, there is not much point in trying to argue with fools.

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My comment was not related to your post, FF.

What I consider an open or a close mind has nothing to do with pontificating.

But, in my experience, those who pontificate is such ways are the ones who are less permeable to news ideas and concepts.

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Foxfyre wrote:

And would you say that it is open minded or closed minded to conclude that a person is pontificating rather than consider and address what the person is saying?

In the case at hand, I believe it would be neither open or close minded: it would be merely accurate.

I suppose that most of us assume that we are "open minded" in that we are willing to consider new information that may contradict or oppose assumptions we have made or beliefs we hold, .... even when we are not. Very often people are labelled "close minded" merely because they reject an opposing argument or interpretation of events, sometimes with good reason. In short, these are labels that one attaches to another; -- the perceptions of both parties are involved; and both are sources of potential error.

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Francis wrote:

My comment was not related to your post, FF.

What I consider an open or a close mind has nothing to do with pontificating.

But, in my experience, those who pontificate is such ways are the ones who are less permeable to news ideas and concepts.

you are refusing to consider substance because you don't like the style. Everything that you say after you have thus admitted that you let style get in the way of substance in debate deserves to be ignored by all.

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Francis wrote:

My comment was not related to your post, FF.

What I consider an open or a close mind has nothing to do with pontificating.

But, in my experience, those who pontificate is such ways are the ones who are less permeable to news ideas and concepts.

As you didn't specify, I didn't know who you were addressing and did not assume that it was necessarily me. But again, is your view on that score open minded or close minded? If a person expresses himself/herself in such a way that you consider pontificating, do you automatically dismiss his/her opinion as invalid? And if so, would you describe such dismissal as a trait of one who is open minded? Or close minded?

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hawkeye10 wrote:

you are refusing to consider substance because you don't like the style. Everything that you say after you have thus admitted that you let style get in the way of substance in debate deserves to be ignored by all.

Everything posted as pontification carries no substance at all.

But, yes, better ignore me..

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My experience, Foxfyre has been that good ideas speak for themselves once presented. Those delivered in a bombastic style by speakers who appear to assume a degree of authority they don't posess, generally excite a degree of suspicion in most of us. They may be right or wrong nevertheless, but such a tone and attitude isn't usually a good way to excite an "open minded" disposition in the listener.

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Small minds vs Open minds

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