just how plagiarised is judaism

I don't think it was lightning so much as static electricity which was in the air at all times in antique times.

Again all antique religious practices appear to have involved static electricity one way or another and the closest thing to those practices in modern life also involves static electricity:

http://www.aaevp.com

They actually made a movie (White Noise) about that sort of thing a couple of years ago. On a scale of 1 - 10 for movies White Noise is no better than a four or a five but the special features on the DVD are worth watching since they describe what is going on in fairly good detail.

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The dictum about the frequency of the birth of suckers is vindicated once again. Are you sure i couldn't interest you in a used, but very sound and potentially profitable bridge?

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gungasnake wrote:

I don't think it was lightning so much as static electricity which was in the air at all times in antique times.

Leaving aside the obscurity of the term "antique times," what is your evidence that this is true? To what naturalistic condition do you attribute this circumstance?

Quote:

Again all antique religious practices appear to have involved static electricity one way or another . . .

Bullshit--what's your evidence? How much actual study have you personally done of what little evidence there is for ancient religious practices? Going to one of those goofy "there's a sucker born every minute" web sites hardly constitutes evidence.

Quote:

. . . and the closest thing to those practices in modern life also involves static electricity:

http://www.aaevp.com

They actually made a movie (White Noise) about that sort of thing a couple of years ago. On a scale of 1 - 10 for movies White Noise is no better than a four or a five but the special features on the DVD are worth watching since they describe what is going on in fairly good detail.

I have no doubt that Tom and Lisa Butler make a good living out of credulous jokers such as you. They don't have to have a for profit organization to profit personally, since their speaking tours constitute book promotion tours, and as officers of the corporation, they can pay themselves hefty salaries without violating the terms of not-for-profit incorporation. Nice work, if you can get it. Given that, apparently, at least one (if not more) sucker is born every minute, they will never lack for an audience.

Here are some clues that these jokers hope to profit from you. They offer memberships, beginning at $30 per annum and rising from there (10,000 suckers out of the 300,000,000 population of the United States--one third of one one hundredth of one percent of the population--would yield a minimum $300,000 per annum, which leaves a tidy sum after the cost of that low tech web site is deducted). They do speaking tours--for a fee--during which they promote their books. They have an area at their web site from which they sell t-shirts, videos, audio tapes, and, of course, a selection of books, including allegedly signed copies of their books (can you look at a signature and verify that it was signed by one of the Butlers or by Estep?) at a premium.

Tell me, Gunga Dim, whose hard-earned money are you spending on the bullshit these people are very happy to peddle to you?

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Setanta wrote:

Bullshit--what's your evidence?

Make up your mind. If you really know I'm spouting total bullshit then you also know that there is no evidence. What sort of an idiot goes around asking for evidence he knows doesn't exist?

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If you have evidence, you can present it and quickly discredit my claim that it is bullshit.

Since you present no evidence, i'll consider that a tacit admission that you have no evidence, and consider my charge that you're peddling bullshit to be vindicated.

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Foofie wrote:

And, what is this thread about anyway?

I suspect that quite a number of us are asking that question.

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There are a tiny handful of stories in the Old Testament in which God is said to kill somebody outright, up close and personal more or less. For instance, the story in 2 Samuel:

Quote:

2SA 6:1 Again, David gathered together all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand.

2SA 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

2SA 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.

2SA 6:4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.

2SA 6:5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

2SA 6:6 And when they came to Nachon's threshing floor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.

2SA 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

2SA 6:8 And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place Perezuzzah to this day....

In other words, they're transporting this "ark" on a wagon, the thing is in danger of falling off, Uzzah puts his hand on the thing to steady it and is killed for his troubles.

Just a story about somebody not being able to take a joke??

Not really. The ark was a miniaturized version of an electrostatic device which, like the pyramids, was meant to effect communication with the spirit world, basically a primitive capacitor or Leyden bottle with two golden terminals ("cherubim") and the Lord was said to "dwell between the cherubim" because people saw the electrical arc between them, e.g.

Quote:

SA1 4:4 So the people sent to Shiloh, that they might bring from thence the ark of the covenant of the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth between the cherubims....

Uzzah basically touched the thing and was electrocuted. Only they wrote the story down in their terms and not ours.

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Really!?

Who woulda thunk?

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Touch not the capacitor, neither let the hand of thine arm disturb it, lest it smite thee.

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McTag wrote:

Touch not the capacitor, neither let the hand of thine arm disturb it, lest it smite thee.

Funny that we still use the word "arc" the way we do for an electrical arc...

Al DeGrazia believes there's another word related to this same sort of phenomena which we still use, i.e. that Israelites had no total monopoly on Leyden bottles and that the Etruscan version of the thing was called "ka-mer" (spirit catcher), which is basically our "camera". I basically know Jack **** about Etrurian language and couldn't vouch for that one.

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You don't know too damn much about any of this. The Ark of the Covenant has absolutely no relationship to the word arc used in the context of matters electrical.

Camera comes from the Roman word for "room." That is why we speak of a bicameral legislature, when it is composed of two bodies, such as a House and a Senate--it means "two rooms." The Etruscans were Tuscans--their langauge was quite different from the Latin which the Romans spoke, and which refers to the language spoken by the Latins and the Hernicans, the two dominant tribes in the area in which the city was founded. The use of the word camera to refer to photographic device comes from camera obscura, which literally means a dark room. Furthermore, the word camera in the Latin seems to be a late construction, and derives from the Greek word which can be rendered in Roman characters as kamara, meaning a vault.

Basically, the Tuscans (or Etruscans, if you prefer) have nothing to do with it. Even the name Etruscan is a modern English construct--it comes from Roman words for this people, whom they commonly referred to as Tusci or Estrusci. The Tuscans own name for themselves was Rasenna. They did represent a distinct cultural and linguistic group, which has come to be called Tuscan through the use of the Roman name for them.

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Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary wrote:

Main Entry:
cam·era ob·scu·ra
Function:
noun
Etymology:
New Latin, literally, dark chamber
Date:
1725

: a darkened enclosure having an aperture usually provided with a lens through which light from external objects enters to form an image of the objects on the opposite surface.

(It is not possible, apparently, to link directly to pages at Merriam-Webster which define specific words. However, if one goes to the M-W site, and types in "camera" or "camera obscura" in their search window, you will get this information.)

[url=http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=camera&searchmode=none][b]The Online Etymology Dictionary[/b][/url] wrote:

16c., in Mod.L. camera obscura "dark chamber" (a black box with a lens that could project images of external objects), from L. camera "vaulted room," from Gk. kamara "vaulted chamber," from PIE base *kam- "to arch." Contrasted with camera lucida (L., "light chamber"), which uses prisms to produce an image on paper beneath the instrument, which can be traced.

************************************************

I don't know who your boy Al DeGrazia is, but either he is ignorant but won't admit it, or he is intentionally playing fast and loose with the truth for his own purposes.

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Setanta wrote:

You don't know too damn much about any of this. .....

Does being an idiot hurt much??

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You'd have to tell me, i have no basis upon which to understand how your condition affects you.

Tell me some more good ones, though, about word origins and electrical devices of the ancients . . . there's nothing wrong with a little free entertainment.

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Atheists have it easy. First they wait for a believer to crawl into a logical hole. Then all they have to do is fill it in with dirt.

edited

_________________
Let us shun any hypothesis that makes man a puppet and God a tyrant crueler than any in history. - Erasmus

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I'll let you in on a big secret here, Setanta: I don't really give a rat's ass what people like you think. There actually are several people here who appear able to get something out of some of these ancient history type topics and anything like that I post here is for their benefit, not yours.

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For as loony as the beliefs of christians can get, they'd have to travel a lot further toward the edge to get as loony as the drivel Gunga Dim offers in all seriousness.

His is a case of digging the hole, and placing the dirt on a canvas sheet which he can then pull in after he has jumped down into the hole.

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Coffee's on. I'll be back later.

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gungasnake wrote:

I'll let you in on a big secret here, Setanta: I don't really give a rat's ass what people like you think. There actually are several people here who appear able to get something out of some of these ancient history type topics and anything like that I post here is for their benefit, not yours.

Ah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

Oh yeah . . . i'm sure lots of people "benefit" from the crackpot nonsense you post . . . as long as they have a good deal more than a grain of salt on hand when they read the drivel you post . . .

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just how plagiarised is judaism

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