just how plagiarised is judaism

Setanta wrote:

brahmin wrote:

however judaism claims to be the first religion to be monotheistic, the original delivered religion etc etc. you cant be "the" religion when important parts of your religious literature are clearly plagiarized form other cultures you came in contact with.

Oh, horseshit. Did you speak to "Judaism" and she told you this? Did you hear "Judaism" make such a claim at a press conference?

It sounds to me as though you have a distinct prejudice against Judaism.

ofcourse i do.... thats hy i argued on their behalf on the einstein - chosen people thread.



despite my soft corner for jews i cant help call a spade a spade. judaism for all its claims to be the doyen of all monotheistic and/or elivered religions, is clearly heavily plagiarised from at least 3 cultures the jews came in contact with.

Monotheistic religion is a plagiarism of a plagiarism of a hearsay of a hearsay, of an illusion of an illusion, extending all the way back to a fabrication of a few nonevents.

brahmin wrote:

Setanta wrote:

brahmin wrote:

however judaism claims to be the first religion to be monotheistic, the original delivered religion etc etc. you cant be "the" religion when important parts of your religious literature are clearly plagiarized form other cultures you came in contact with.

Oh, horseshit. Did you speak to "Judaism" and she told you this? Did you hear "Judaism" make such a claim at a press conference?

It sounds to me as though you have a distinct prejudice against Judaism.

ofcourse i do.... thats hy i argued on their behalf on the einstein - chosen people thread.



despite my soft corner for jews i cant help call a spade a spade. judaism for all its claims to be the doyen of all monotheistic and/or elivered religions, is clearly heavily plagiarised from at least 3 cultures the jews came in contact with.

What you may or may not have argued on another thread in no way mitigates the obvious prejudice you display in this thread. Either this was a feeble attempt at sarcasm, or you completely missed the point of what i wrote.

What support do you allege for your claim that "Judaism" claims to be the doyen of all monotheistic or "delivered" (?) religions. Did you hear "Judaism" say this, or did you see a television broadcast during which "Judaism" made such a claim?

Unless and until you can demonstrate that all practitioners of Judaism make or believe such a claim, you are simply slandering an entire body of religious believers, and displaying a unreasoning prejudice. "Judaism" is not an entity which can or does make any claims about itself.

any website and most of popular literature about judaism will state clearly that abraham was the father of monotheism, that christianity and islam follow the law of moses, that most of western religious thought is shaped by "their" fables of creation, of the flood, their lore.

Scholars are in bitter disagreement over the origin of the the Yahweh religion and the identity of its founder, Moses. While Moses is an Egyptian name, the religion itself comes from Midian. In the account, Moses lives for a time with a Midianite priest, Jethro, at the foot of Mount Sinai. The Midianites seem to have a Yahweh religion already in place; they worship the god of Mount Sinai as a kind of powerful nature deity. So it's possible that the Hebrews picked up the Yahweh religion from another group of Semites and that this Yahweh religion slowly developed into the central religion of the Hebrews. All scholars are agreed, however, that the process was slow and painful. In the Hebrew history, all during the migration and for two centuries afterwards, the Hebrews follow many various religions unevenly.

The Mosaic religion was initially a monolatrous religion; while the Hebrews are enjoined to worship no deity but Yahweh, there is no evidence that the earliest Mosaic religion denied the existence of other gods. In fact, the account of the migration contains numerous references by the historical characters to other gods, and the first law of the Decalogue is, after all, that no gods be put before Yahweh, not that no other gods exist. While controversial among many people, most scholars have concluded that the initial Mosaic religion for about two hundred years was a monolatrous religion. For there is ample evidence in the Hebrew account of the settlement of Palestine, that the Hebrews frequently changed religions, often several times in a single lifetime.

Any website? Care to back that up? Most popular literature about Judaism? Whose "popular literature," that of Jews, or that of christian fundamentalists--that would be a significant distinction, you know?

So, basically, you're attempting to cover your ass with bald assertion, and not a shred of evidence.

Once again, what support to you allege for your claim? Just saying that "any web site" and "most of popular literature" support such a claim does not make that so, nor is it evidence that all the genuine practitioners of Judaism make or support such a claim. There is absolutely no basis for a statement that christianity follows Mosaic law. In that case, you're just making **** up. Here, wanna a ham sammich?

As for "religious" law, there are literally hundreds of variants, based not simply on an interpretation of the "gospels," but upon local customary law. Almost all fundamentalist christian sects base their religious canon on the new testament, not on the old testament/Torah. Major derivative religions such as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses base their doctrines on their own particular interpretation of the new testament, and in the case of the Mormons, no their hilarious Book of Mormon. As for civil law, in nations which are predominantly christian, there are only two major bases for their legal systems--far and away that is Roman code, in one of only a few variants. Otherwise, the basis is Nordic and Germanic customary law, celebrated in the English-speaking world as "common law."

Let's face it, you don't know what the hell you're talking about, you're just airing your prejudices. And yes, unless and until you can demonstrate that at least an overwhelming majority of web sites and popular literature support your claim, you're just whistling in the dark.

meanwhile from the same jewish virtual library and a lot more in keeping with the title of the thread, exilic

you make it sound as if christianity and islam are not considered Judaic religions or daughter religions of judaism.

from the jewsish virtual library

"Most statements attributed to Jesus in the New Testament conform to Jewish teachings. "

inference - christianity and christian teaching does NOT come from judaism.

bleh !!

brahmin wrote:

meanwhile from the same jewish virtual library and a lot more in keeping with the title of the thread, exilic

As the text from your own link shows, the Babylonian captivity took place roughly between 800 and 600 BCE. For that matter, the Exodus (once again, based on the JVL version) takes place in 1250 BCE. Akhenaten died in about 1335 BCE, so the claim to have originated monotheism would be invalidated on that basis alone.

As for what is or is not "more in keeping with the title of the thread," the title of the thread claims Judaism practiced "plagiarism." I've already pointed out why i consider that to be horseshit. But the discussion right now is whether or not there is a preponderance of a claim that Judaism is the source of all monotheism. Your link to a page at the JVL about the Babylonian captivity in now way supports your claim to that effect.

You're dancing now, and doing a poor job of it.

brahmin wrote:

you make it sound as if christianity and islam are not considered Judaic religions or daughter religions of judaism.

No, i don't. You're just pissed because your hateful and prejudicial argument is falling apart in the face of actual evidence, as opposed to your unsubstantiated assertions, so you're making wild claims now about what i have written. I made no comment on the origin of Islam. As for christianity, what i specifically wrote is that there is no basis for a claim that christianity follows Mosaic law. You have provided not evidence to that effect. Now you've added the strawman, and a pretty pathetic version thereof, to your sinking argument.

brahmin wrote:

from the jewsish virtual library

"Most statements attributed to Jesus in the New Testament conform to Jewish teachings. "

inference - christianity and christian teaching does NOT come from judaism.

bleh !!

Yet another strawman. I didn't say that christianity does not derive from Judaism. I just pointed out that there is no basis for the claim that christianity follows Mosaic law. I guess the comment about a ham sandwich flew right over your head.

You're a sore loser.

no it didnt.

and i havent been disproved one bit yet.

neither have you proved that the jews did not repeatedly plagiarise,

nor proved that chistianity and islam do NOT come from judaism.