just how plagiarised is judaism

The squirreling for words to find an definable part of the whole reminds of the game I played as a child "I've got a secret" and by the time the secret had gone full circle it bore little reseblance to the original utterance. I hear, I think, and I pass on what I think it meant.

I don't believe I am incorrect in stating most of the religious dogma was passed down verbally with random scholars putting quill to papaya paper.

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brahmin wrote:

Setanta wrote:
brahmin wrote:
you make it sound as if christianity and islam are not considered Judaic religions or daughter religions of judaism.

No, i don't. You're just pissed because your hateful and prejudicial argument is falling apart in the face of actual evidence, as opposed to your unsubstantiated assertions, so you're making wild claims now about what i have written. I made no comment on the origin of Islam. As for christianity, what i specifically wrote is that there is no basis for a claim that christianity follows Mosaic law. You have provided not evidence to that effect. Now you've added the strawman, and a pretty pathetic version thereof, to your sinking argument.

i just showed that its written in the jewish virtual library that most of jesus's teachings come from judaism.

So what? I really think you have a comprehension problem. I wrote that christianity does not follow Mosaic law. You haven't provided any evidence that it does. I haven't denied the Judaic origins of christianity, or that Judaism borrowed from the beliefs with which it was once surrounded. But when you make specific claims such as that christianity follows Mosiac law, which are clearly false, and i call you on it, you dance around screaming: "Oh yeah, oh yeah, well what about this ? ! ? ! ?"--and what you have come up with bears no relationship to the comments you have made.

I didn't say that the alleged teachings of the putative Jesus did not come from Judaism. I simply said that christianity does not follow Mosaic law.

You need to chill out, and you need to rid yourself of your obsession with and irrational hatred of Judaism.

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Merry Andrew wrote:

I think the problem here is primarily a semantic one -- the use of the word "plagiarism."

Nobody on this thread has denied that nascent Judaism, in its earliest stages of development, borrowed certain beliefs, traditions and, for all I know, ritual practices from other peoples with which they came into contact. This is so common a practice it is virtually universal. Early Cjristianity, for example, folded all the old traditions of the Romans, the Kelts and the Teutonic (Germanic) tribes into its beliefs and practices. That's why we celebrate Christmas (the Roman Saturnalia and the Teutonic Jul [Yule]) and Easter (the Germanic spring festival called Oester). That's why the Church calendar lists a St. Valentine's Day; it was the early spring Lupercalia of ancient Rome (mentioned by Shakespeare in Julius Caesar.) And on and on. As I said, there is nothing unusual about this kind of borrowing and nobody has denied that pre-Christian Jews did this, along with everyone else.

As I also said in a previous post, that sort of borrowing in no way constitutes "plagiarism."

one man's borrowing is another's plagiarism.

btw, chistianity we all know about. very few aspects are original. thats only to be expected in a religions which derives from another (judaism) and then went on to convert a lot of other peoples, incorporating their practices along the way with cunning topspin. but we were talking of judaism here. just cos others do it, it dont get judaism off the hook.

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Wait a minute!

Irrational hatred of Judaism? Then what's with all that defending of Jews in the "Jews are NOT God's Chosen people" thread?

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Setanta wrote:

. . . .I didn't say that the alleged teachings of the putative Jesus did not come from Judaism. I simply said that christianity does not follow Mosaic law. . .

In which you and I (GASP!) agree. Jesus proclaimed "Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill . . ." (Matthew 5:17) And why Paul explained "Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ. . . " (Galatians 3:24)

Hence, the remarkable differences between the 2 faiths.

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Wait a minute!

Irrational hatred of Judaism? Then what's with all that defending of Jews in the "Jews are NOT God's Chosen people" thread?

I can't help you with that one, and it's not as though Brahmin has shown himself to be rational or consistent in this one. I did have a look at that one, when i saw Brahmin was posting there, even though i tend to avoid the threads of the anti-Semite Buttercup (a.k.a. Zippo). It is interesting to note that Brahmin is using a sort of reverse racism there--he is claiming that all the great advances in civilization, and the great minds of the last two thousand years, came from the Jews. It's just as stupid a thesis as it would be to claim that all Jews are evil and stupid. This boy's a mess.

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Ashkenazi Jews have been using Gentile genes in the maternal DNA, since early groups of Jewish traders wandered into Europe pre-Middle Ages. The younger men married native young ladies, and from then on Ashkenazi Jews were a hybrid. I guess that's a sort of plagiarism on the cellular level.

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Re: just how plagiarised is judaism

brahmin wrote:

the 6 day creation concept comes from the Enuma Elish.
the flood myth from the Gilgamesh.

most of the 10 commandments and mosaic law can be traced to the egyptian book of the ead and to the teachings of atenism

i dunno how true it is but post exilic judaism is said to be traceable to a people called the Pharisees.

all of that begs the question - just how original/plagiarized is judaism and jewish literature.

Ancient religious practices involved a number of methods for attempting to communicate with the spirit world directly and these invariably involved trance states and static electricity (the closest thing to antique religion in our present world is EVP).

Ancient Israelites appear to have been unique in their absolute abomination of the practice of idolatry, which had turned the world into a near insane asylum for a thousand years or thereabouts after the flood.

They appear also to be the first to miniaturize an electrostatic EVP device (the ark of the covenant) as an alternative to things like pyramids, which were basically lightning rods with golden tips and polished facing stones.

The word "pyramid" itself is a Greek word, the root part being the familiar "pyr" (fire) which we see in 'pyrotechnics', 'pyromaniac' etc.

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Re: just how plagiarised is judaism

gungasnake wrote:

The word "pyramid" itself is a Greek word, the root part being the familiar "pyr" (fire) which we see in 'pyrotechnics', 'pyromaniac' etc.

No, it is not.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-pyramid.html

The Greek word for pyramid is puramis, from which we get the Latin pyramis from. The plural of pyramis being pyramides.

Pyramid is therefore a word that comes from Latin, not Greek.

The Online Etymology Dictionary gives the following:

Quote:

1552 (earlier in L. form piramis, 1398), from Fr. pyramide (O.Fr. piramide, 12c.), from L. pyramides, pl. of pyramis "one of the pyramids of Egypt," from Gk. pyramis (pl. pyramides), apparently an alteration of Egyptian pimar "pyramid."

No mention of the word, fire, there at all.

Not to mention the fact that pyramids were not designed as lightning conductors. The only reason they get struck by lightning is by virtue of the fact that lightning strikes the tallest object, which in Egypt, would be the pyramids, not the trees.

Pyramids themselves are merely a giant monument, which evolved from the earlier burial places, which consisted of only one tier. They started to add more tiers, until we got the familiar step pyramid. From there the smooth-faced pyramid evolved.

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I often wonder if Gunga Dim makes this **** up as he goes along, or if he has a secret web site (or sites) which fob this horseshit off on him, and he's attempting to take credit for an erudition which not only does he not possess, but, unknown to him, his source does not possess either.

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Actually, I've just done some more research and it would appear that the Greek and Latin words for pyramid and pyramids are almost identical.

Either way it doesn't change the fact that pyramid is not a Greek word, but an alteration of a Greek word, which means pyramids (plural).

The Greeks called the pyramids, pyramis or pyramides, because it appeared they thought the Egyptian pyramids looked like a variety of cake they used to have.

http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/pyramids/home.html

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Setanta wrote:

I often wonder if Gunga Dim makes this **** up as he goes along, or if he has a secret web site (or sites) which fob this horseshit off on him, and he's attempting to take credit for an erudition which not only does he not possess, but, unknown to him, his source does not possess either.

He must make it up.

I recently ran across a quote which is very apropos of this whole disaster of a thread:

"All wisdom is plagiarism; only stupidity is original."
Hugh Kerr, "Preacher, Professor, Editor."

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Educate yourselves...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060629014618AAveoHH

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Educate yourselves ? ! ? ! ?

Ah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

You've got one clown posting online who makes the same stupid claim you tried to foist off on us, and citing exactly ZERO sources. That is followed by another unknown contributor, who provides several sources, and completely ignores (appropriately) the drivel your boy "He-Man" posted.

Wanna buy a bridge, smart guy?

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That was in the "i saw it online, it must be true!" school of erudition. We expect no less from Gunga Dim.

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Funny, I hadn't really even noticed the "mid" thing in that url I posted....

The important part of the deal is that the root part of the word is the familiar "pyr"/fire, and that plasma physics kinds of phenomena (St. Elmo's fire according to some) was involved. The things were there for religous purposes and the glowing was part of it somehow or other.

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Judaism - innovative, but not inventive - I mean look at the walk of life, pastoralism, relative to farming or hunting/gathering - more to lose, more to win, got to have that human quality-control to make it pay. Problem is it defeats the purpose, I mean, do my thing regardless of how many sheep I own and let the chips fall where they may.

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gungasnake wrote:

Funny, I hadn't really even noticed the "mid" thing in that url I posted....

The important part of the deal is that the root part of the word is the familiar "pyr"/fire, and that plasma physics kinds of phenomena (St. Elmo's fire according to some) was involved. The things were there for religous purposes and the glowing was part of it somehow or other.

This thread stinks badly enough without you shoveling your crackpot, loony tunes horseshit into the mix.

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Listen, Gunga Dim, your boy "He-Man" upon whom you rely for a derivation of pyramid, was making **** up with that crap about "mid" meaning in the middle. The Greek combining form for middle is meso-, from their word for middle, which can be rendered in Roman characters as mesos--as in Mesopotamia, as in mesozoic, as in Meso-America.

Either you are an old guy who lacks judgement, discernment and the natural skepticism of those who survive several decades of adult life, or you're young and foolish--i've long believed the latter were true. If your boy "He-Man" was making **** up about "mid" being a Greek combining form, does it not immediately occur to you that the part a bout a common root with the Greek word for fire is suspect?

You just want to believe that crap about EVP and pyramids being giant conductors--so you try to dredge up some tripe to support it.

The alternative method is to study the situation and circumstances to see if the explanation plausibly covers them and without reference to overly complex justifications or elaborate and doubtful theses. You clearly haven't done that--you're going with a preposterous and needlessly elaborate explanation for the pyramids, because you want to believe it, not because you've got any good reason to believe it.

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I did not think that pyramids were "grounded," like a lightening rod is "grounded." Therefore, if lightening hit the top point of a pyramid, would it not just blow off the top point? We would then see many damaged pyramids, due to lightening. I did not think that was the pyramidal situation?

And, what is this thread about anyway?

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just how plagiarised is judaism

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