male student dress code Paris & Rome?

Off hand, I'd say shorts are fine in Rome for joggers in parks.. and probably still a no-no for sight seeing at the Vatican, or in churches. I'm not that sure about the vatican as a whole, versus appropriateness for St. Peter's.

I've not been there in the summer, so I'm generally ignorant re what people are wearing then, be they Romans or tourists. I didn't see shorts in April or October, that I remember anyway.

I did read as part of the Frugal Traveler (NYTimes) blog by Matt Gross a piece about what he was packing for his twelve week grand-tour trip, and subsidary comments by people giving him advice re shorts or not. Much of the advice was to not pack them, but he was still bringing shorts for running and bike riding on the trip, if I remember correctly. Couldn't find that exact part of the blog when I checked just now, but perhaps I missed it.

You might try directly asking in Frommer's Travel website.

Current guide books probably also have some clothing advice..

Shorts on male students in Paris are really bad.

On the other hand, rock t-shirts, rock!

Listen to Francis!

Thanks so much for the input! Really it may make quite a difference - he's an art student, they gave them no end of info about art supplies to take but nothing about how to be ready to travel except "pack light"...and he will be traveling on trains a lot also...

I wish could go spend a week in Paris, I think it would cure most of my ailments.

I think, that's true for most places in Europe (taken aside pure holiday resorts at the seaside etc) .... and not only for students. :wink:
(But that makes it easier to spot male Americans ... :wink: )

Well he's off tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes for the innocent abroad. Funny how easy it is to flit around the globe online but it's another matter to go in person. I remember the first time I ever set foot out of the United States...we landed in Bergen, Norway, on the way to Denmark. You could have knocked me over with a feather...the people looked similar to me but the words out of their mouths...another language, other worlds, other people, there all the time but I never knew. (Of course I knew other people spoke different languages but it was just not the same as being there in person and seeing/hearing it.) Everything was delightful then - I was about 27. Now it's thirty years later...older and wiser...many delights yes but so much pain everywhere too. He comes back home June 14, I hope.

How many gray hairs will you have by June 14?

Lighten up!

Oh my friend we're older but no wiser
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same




He will do, France does no harm..

Oh, Francis! Where are your two lines of poetry from??!!

"Oh my friend we're older but no wiser
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same"

I did not see them initially when I looked at your post. They are so wonderful and that is so true. The dreams, thank god, are very hard to kill...my oldest son died two years ago, suicide...and he was "sick' for ten years before that...so I am quite a basket case myself...the youngest who is traveling is also very sensitive and "artistic"...so I worry...but I AM "wiser" in that I know that anxiety does not help anything...I try to let go...as if one can rule the heart by "trying"..

Thank you for the beautiful poetry! He is going to Rome first though...I never had the least desire to see Rome - until I looked at some pictures online preparing for his trip...unbelievable magnificence...but reportedly lots of thieves too.

Well I got to live my life. And I guess he gets to live his, if he dares..and if I let him. Really I was not involved in his affairs at all until the last minute of this trip - I work full time...and he's a full time student who works parttime too...but the trip just scared the bejeezus out of me...death/separation, all sort of kin.

aha, I found it! And I even have the old lp, with Ms. Hopkins on the cover pouting and her hands on her hips - haven't heard the song in many years, will have to go play it. And have to find out about Gene Raskin.

Ok, Mr. Raskin adapted an old Russian folk tune, and the lyrics also I think were inspired by the Russion lyrics, quite different but the feeling is the same. Here is a link that tells about it:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/McCartney-Paul-517/days.htm

Music & Lyrics: Gene Raskin; performed by Mary Hopkins)

Once upon a time there was a tavern
Where we used to raise a glass or two
Remember how we laughed away the hours
And dreamed of all the great things we would do

Those were the days my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way.
La la la la...
Those were the days, oh yes those were the days

Then the busy years went rushing by us
We lost our starry notions on the way
If by chance I'd see you in the tavern
We'd smile at one another and we'd say

Those were the days my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way.
La la la la...
Those were the days, oh yes those were the days

Just tonight I stood before the tavern
Nothing seemed the way it used to be
In the glass I saw a strange reflection
Was that lonely woman really me

Those were the days my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way.
La la la la...
Those were the days, oh yes those were the days

Through the door there came familiar laughter
I saw your face and heard you call my name
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same

Those were the days my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way.
La la la la...
Those were the days, oh yes, those were the days

Hello homies who gave me a little comfort when I really needed it and had no one else to ask! (I asked at the Metallica message board, lol, the only other international place I know that is active, no one responded, lol, I'm sure they thought I was insane...pretty close to the truth...)

He got home fine. He had a wonderful time. He did not find wearing shorts to be an issue as far as I can tell but I'm not sure he wore them, haven't had much chance to speak with him yet. Overwhelmed by the grandeur that IS Rome, not was....beauty is not wasted on him, at age 11 he asked me why did I have artificial flowers on the table? An eleven year old boy! I knew he was "weird" from that moment on...I hope he will find an outlet for his wonderful weirdness.. If he puts something on his myspace about his trip I'll put a link here, he took many pictures.

I think the time in Paris was so rushed he did not enjoy as much, they spent more time in Italy. The Louvre, very rushed. In the best possible world we could go wherever we wanted and spend as much time as necessary, the wonderful world of the INTERNET, lol...but as he says, being there is different...so it is...

He liked the Eiffel Tower, yay him...lol...

They were supposed to see that statue of jesus under the water off the coast of Italy, I forget where...didn't get to go down to see it in person...he brought back a couple of little statues...it just dawned on me this morning why someone would put a jesus statue deep under the water...say not who will descend in the deep....he's in your mouth stupid...rom 10:6-9 and Deut 30:11-14, yes my family is full of religious nuts...my poor son who died, very worried about the "lake of fire"...and also mad as hell about it...sincere sensitive people, god bless us every one...

One thing I was really sorry about though...I thought they had evening meals included in the trip but I guess the dollar plummeting played havoc with that...and he ate hit and miss and did not have that much great food...some but not how I remember when we lived in Germany where every meal was a revelation, a work of art in itself...and the two meals I had in France, one in a working man's little hole in the wall restaurant, just a grilled chicken breast and a baked tomato with fresh garlic but done so specially...with potato chips on the side, lol...the most delightful meal I ever had...Strasbourg I think...and also a big copper skillet full of sauteed green beans...so beautiful...to look at and to eat...

Well I hope he gets to go back, but moreso I hope he takes what he saw and makes life for himself and those he touches here better...because we have to be where we are, we can't go flitting around all the time...

He is very very VERY angry at "religion"...was impressed with the Vatican...but one of his works of art, he called it "pope art" (get it, like pop art?!) aka the Industrial Pope...made of heavy guilded cardboard, a very good fascimile of the pope with a lot of screws in his back...a little Tool and NIN influence I guess although his musical influences are generally more obscure than that...

THANK YOU AGAIN for responding to my seemingly silly question...I was coming unglued...and for letting me speak to you..

Glad he is back home safe and happy.

World is a beautiful place..

Btw, the statue he wanted to look at is Christ of the Abyss at San Fruttuoso, Liguria.

Shunammite--

I love happy endings. When is his next trip?

Why thank you Noddy. I think it will be awhile, unless he can finagle some kind of semester abroad. You know there are no "happy endings", just a steady stream of life...but I know what you mean, and thanks. :~)

One thing is, I thought I had no interest in going to Europe again. And now I do.