Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Aug, 2003 03:49 pm
I know, I was raised jewish and didn't mean to imply that they were sects. There were many more sects than you listed historically, but they have been reduced to those, basically. No, jewish is not a nationality in the same way that being catholic doesn't make you Italian. My ancestors are Russian jews, very different from African jews or middle eastern Jews or polish Jews. I think recognizing jews as a nationality is a form of rascism, like saying that they are not really from the country in which they were born. Also, you can convert to judaism without changing your geographic location or heritage.



jespah wrote:
Portal Star - Sephardic. But those aren't sects; they're just areas where Jews are from. Ashkenazim are from Eastern Europe, mainly, and Sephardim are generally from Spanish-speaking or Arabic countries. This isn't all strictly true, lots of people are both (such as myself).

As for Jewish sects, they include Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionism and Hasidim.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 12:15 pm
Bingo, and thanks. Judaism is absolutely not a nationality. I'm an American, I have cousins who are Swedish and others who are Mexican.

LW, I think all that you are observing are nonobservant Jews, much like Catholics who don't go to church, nothing more than that.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 12:19 pm
I realize they are non-observant Jews but what about considering them as an ethnic group without constant reference to their religious tradition? Actually, I try to view all of us as one ethnic group -- mankind.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 12:53 pm
I don't think so - don't mean to be difficult, but there's quite an ethnic difference between me and a Bet Hayisroel Jew from Ethiopia. Do we go in the same "ethnic group"? It's just not the same as Italians, per se. I know we're a small group and there is something to be said about being a "member of the tribe", but I just don't see it as being any more than faith-based, through practice or through birth (or both).
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 02:08 pm
I also realize it's difficult and I don't believe in pidgeonholing any perceived difference in people. I understand how their are sub-ethnic groups in a main ethnic group. The word ethnic is quite a generality in itself:

Main Entry: 1eth·nic
Pronunciation: 'eth-nik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin ethnicus, from Greek ethnikos national, gentile, from ethnos nation, people; akin to Greek Ethos custom -- more at SIB
Date: 15th century
1 : HEATHEN
2 a : of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background <ethnic minorities> <ethnic enclaves> b : being a member of an ethnic group c : of, relating to, or characteristic of ethnics <ethnic neighborhoods> <ethnic foods>
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 02:09 pm
(And I know you are not a HEATHEN, Jesp! Laughing )
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 02:10 pm
(I also keep hearing Jewish food referred to as "ethnic.")
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 02:36 pm
Is motsa ball soup ethnic or Jewish?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 02:56 pm
Its Yummy. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 03:11 pm
I know! Smile
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 03:55 pm
I'm from New Jersey.

Are you guys trying to tell me that most lawyers are not Italian?

C'mon!
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Sep, 2003 04:16 pm
Demographics certainly have a lot to do with it. Because of "The Sopranos," we're suppose to believe most people think most Italians in Jersey are in organized crime. That would mean most attorneys in Jersey are in organized crime.
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Sep, 2003 12:46 am
Mmm.... Matza ball soup.... mmmmm..... *drool*
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Sep, 2003 10:25 am
Lightwizard wrote:
Demographics certainly have a lot to do with it. Because of "The Sopranos," we're suppose to believe most people think most Italians in Jersey are in organized crime. That would mean most attorneys in Jersey are in organized crime.


Are you suggesting that there are lawyers who are not in organized crime?

All the lawyers I know are very organized.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Sep, 2003 12:45 pm
Laughing You got me there, Frank -- not the most appreciated of the professions. I know in interior design especially that the buzz in the industry is don't work for doctors or lawyers. They both seem to be flakes in making decisions and paying their bills. I can attest that his is quite true in my life-long experience. So who do we have in Congress and the Senate?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Sep, 2003 02:37 pm
I will put my two cents in. Judaism is a religion not a nationality. The reason many seem to think of it as both a religion and nationality stems from the fact that in almost all nations of their birth Jews for the most part were not allowed to fully integrate into society. Basically they were kept apart in ghetto's and very seldom considered full citizens. The Jew has therefore always been a stranger in a strange land, not through design but circumstance thrust upon them.. That is what makes the state Of Israel so important to world Jewry.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Sep, 2003 02:57 pm
The closing of court houses on Sunday without a doubt stems from religious tradition. I do not know if they still exist but if anyone remembers there were Sunday blue laws which restricted business on Sunday. Many of traditions stem from the majority religion in an nation. . Take note that in Moslem nations the rest day is Friday while in Israel it is Saturday.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Sep, 2003 03:26 pm
I'd like to comment on a couple of things Au said.

au1929 wrote:
I will put my two cents in. Judaism is a religion not a nationality.


Judaism is a religion. And I agree, often, Judaism is not a nationality. But Judaism is also a culture and an ethnic designation in ways that Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist are not.


Quote:
The reason many seem to think of it as both a religion and nationality stems from the fact that in almost all nations of their birth Jews for the most part were not allowed to fully integrate into society. Basically they were kept apart in ghetto's and very seldom considered full citizens.


Well, YES and NO. Jews, even in this country where there certainly are no restrictions on them, often prefer to live in enclaves. Nothing particularly unusual about that, as many ethnic groups tend in the same direction.

In any case, the very word "ghetto" was originally a word used to define the section of a city in which Jews were REQUIRED to live by non-Jews.


Quote:
The Jew has therefore always been a stranger in a strange land, not through design but circumstance thrust upon them..



Be careful of that word "always."

Actually, there was an occasion of very enlightened acceptance of Jews in Islamic Spain - and I don't think the Jewish experience in America has been notably different from the experience of many other ethnic influxes.

Quote:
That is what makes the state Of Israel so important to world Jewry.


I would imagine. But I also imagine the Arabs of the Middle East are not particularly happy with the situation - and I can understand that also.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Sep, 2003 04:06 pm
Frank
Quote:
Be careful of that word "always."

Would 95% be more to your liking. To this point in history always is apropos
as for the Golden age in Spain it still ended in the same way as it did throughout European history. Convert or leave. As Jews they were unwelcome.

Quote:
Well, YES and NO. Jews, even in this country where there certainly are no restrictions on them, often prefer to live in enclaves
.

Jews as every group in this nation tend to live in familiar surroundings. ie.. There are Italian, Polish and, etc., neighborhoods throughout this nation. I should note that is becoming less and less so as time passes. It is far less so today than it was when I was growing up. America is indeed a melting pot.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Sep, 2003 04:17 pm
lbredd
Quote:
Yes I suppose some judges are Jews most lawers are.


I will add my voice to the chorus. Are you serious. I would also suppose that all Jews are rich, control all banking and the media.
0 Replies
 
 

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