Bowling for Columbine!

It was an interesting film, but personally I found Moore's conclusions overly simplistic. And a number of statements were made which are false, or are stretching the truth.

Documentary or fiction?

Well the thing who really got me interested is when he turn to Canada and for me it sounds realistic enought. Fear can be reason enought to lock yourself in and arm yourself with more and more weapons. So his conlusions about that sound realistic to me.

I constantly hear Americans say that they don't want the government to have the only weapons. Why are people so afraid of their own government in the supposed seat of freedom?

I think that comes from the origins of the American govenment and the colonization. After breaking the British shackes they had to fear something.

Why?

Why?

I mean, if you are serious, why especially the USA?

Because the USA was founded by people who had a distaste for authority. They tried to get away from their government but it follwoed them. So then they kicked the Brit government out and suddenly realized they had to live under one of their own creation.

so they all glanced at each other and said. "Let's keep this one under check".

they haven't done a good job at that but the anti-authority culture prevails.

So it does here, Craven - we were founded by convicts and political exiles and such! But we do not have the same level of fear as Americans.

Maybe you have a smaller government? Maybe you have fewer people who have been incarcerated?

Or maybe... you guys just started that way and don;t mind it? ;-)

Or maybe our citizens are less likely to have the desire to kill each other.

And just how would you explain that, Wilso?

US folk be just born bad? Something in the water? God's curse?

Unless you take the ridiculous position that Americans are just naturally killers, there has to be an explanation for the cultural differences.

Hmmm - we do incarcerate at a lesser rate Craven - so far - we are actually increasing the rates - except for the state WA - which went mad a few years ago with imprisoning young people....and they are reversing it.

Used to what? Being governed? Er, yes.....
But - our governments have tended to be "bigger" - that is, tending more towards the socialist end, by US standards.

Oughta engender lots of hate....

We've actually got more politicians per head of population than either the US or Great Britain. We;re quite overgoverned in this country.

I think Monger is right - that Moore's conclusions are overly simplistic -(and his factual errors are well documented) - but I did find it fascinating that Canadians own lots of guns (which I had always simply thought was the basic explanation for the USA's high homicide rate - easy availability of lethal weapons) and yet do not kill each other at nearly the same rate.

The culture of fear thing is interesting. Crime wise, I would think the Oz media are similarly inculcating a culture of fear here - in the face of a slightly decreased murder rate (waaaaaaaay below that of the USA - but above that of countries like Great Britain - I guess that means we like to kill each other more than the Brits, but less than Americans, eh Wilso - why?). Of course, we do have rising robbery rates - resumably due to drugs, I would imagine - and the rise of an unskilled, young, unemployed underclass - raised in struggling, hgh-risk families?

I wonder if we will become as fearful?

just a personal thought about guns in the US, i think that many many families incuding mine have historically had guns around the house dating back to the old west (in my case) so we were raised with guns being a common phenomona, i got my first 22 rifle from my grandfather when i was 12 and have owned several guns since then. currently i own one winchester '94 30-30 deer rifle that sits in my closet unfired for at least 10 yrs. I dont even really think about it but i would be upset to find myself against the law by owning it. btw Columbine High School is in my neighborhood.

Had never fired a weapon before the Army, and never had the desire to since. Too many years in EMS, I guess (although that hasn't stopped me from riding "donourcycles" )

The Liberal party is certainly trying to make us fearful. That seems to be their only tactic. And it seems to be working if the opinion polls are to be believed.

Wilso - I live in a Labor state, as do you. I can't believe it, but Labor here is indulging in just the same "tough on crime" crap as the Libs did - more so. I believe it is the same in NSW.

It was, but it seems to have subsided. The pathetic state of our hospitals and transport infrastructure seem to be the topics of importance at the moment.

have a look at my idiosyncratic letter thread in the Oz forum.