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HOW Can We Convince Criminals ?

 
 
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 06:27 pm
If criminals are willing to ignore the laws against ROBBERY;
if criminals are willing to disregard the laws against MURDER,
HOW can we convince them to OBEY "gun control" laws?




David
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 739 • Replies: 14
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 08:09 pm
Gun control laws reduce supply, thus reducing opportunity for a potential murderer to acquire a weapon, particularly if the urge to do harm to another unpremeditated and due to emotional stress.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 08:43 pm
Gee OmSig we're already Number One, how can we do any better?:

Quote:
Gun Deaths - United States Tops The List

The United States leads the world's richest nations in gun deaths -- murders, suicides, and accidental deaths due to guns - according to a study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

The U.S. was first at 14.24 gun deaths per 100,000 people. Two other countries in the Americas came next. Brazil was second with 12.95, followed by Mexico with 12.69.

Japan had the lowest rate, at 0.05 gun deaths per 100,000 (1 per 2 million people). The police in Japan actively raid homes of those suspected of having weapons.

The 36 countries in the study were the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, having the highest GNP per capita income.

The United States accounted for 45 percent of the 88,649 gun deaths reported in the study, the first comprehensive international scrutiny of gun-related deaths.


Gun Deaths Around the World
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 09:34 pm
hingehead wrote:
Gun control laws reduce supply,
thus reducing opportunity for a potential murderer to acquire a weapon,
particularly if the urge to do harm to another unpremeditated and due to emotional stress.

Do u have EVIDENCE that " gun control " laws reduce supply ?
Do thay reduce supply as well as marijuana control laws reduce supply ?

Do u know of anyone in America
who DESIRES to buy marijuana, but he cannot get it ??

For centuries before the invention of electric tools,
guns were made by hand.

Guns were among the world's first machines with moving parts,
(tho more easily made now with modern "know-how").

Guns are simple machines, easily made.
(The M-1 Carbine was invented by a prisoner, David Williams,
in prison for moonshining; convicts have secretly made pistols
[including fully functional submachineguns] in prison workshops.)

The accumulated knowledge of the gunsmith is not secret;
it is among the world's freely available engineering data.

If criminals had no guns, they'd arm themselves using that information
and access to the hardware stores of America;
thus the FUTILITY of "gun control" philosophy:
the disarmament of criminals is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.


REMOVAL from America of violently felonious recidivists can reduce misconduct.
Crime comes from bad people, not their tools.


David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 09:38 pm
Green Witch wrote:
Gee OmSig we're already Number One, how can we do any better?:

Quote:
Gun Deaths - United States Tops The List

The United States leads the world's richest nations in gun deaths -- murders, suicides, and accidental deaths due to guns - according to a study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

The U.S. was first at 14.24 gun deaths per 100,000 people. Two other countries in the Americas came next. Brazil was second with 12.95, followed by Mexico with 12.69.

Japan had the lowest rate, at 0.05 gun deaths per 100,000 (1 per 2 million people). The police in Japan actively raid homes of those suspected of having weapons.

The 36 countries in the study were the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, having the highest GNP per capita income.

The United States accounted for 45 percent of the 88,649 gun deaths reported in the study, the first comprehensive international scrutiny of gun-related deaths.


Gun Deaths Around the World



Thank u for that information, Green Witch.
Permit me to re-state the topic question:

" If criminals are willing to ignore the laws against ROBBERY;
if criminals are willing to disregard the laws against MURDER,
HOW can we convince them to OBEY "gun control" laws? "




David
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 09:45 pm
Well, David, a large majority of the guns used in crimes came from legal sources, or at one remove from legal sources:

sales from legal gun dealers
sales at gun shows
sales from legal dealers who will sell to pretty much anybody
straw buyers from legal dealers
people with no record who buy quantities of guns and resell them to criminals
burglaries from dealers
burglaries from legal owners (burglars are not totally stupid--it's not hard to tell when the lights are off and the car's not in the driveway--ten minutes and all those guns you bought for your protection did you absolutely no good because you weren't home, and you've just armed forty bad guys at one whack--good work, David).

It's really not "If guns are made criminal, only criminals will have guns", but rather "If guns are made criminal, pretty soon criminals won't have guns either".
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 09:52 pm
username wrote:
Well, David, a large majority of the guns used in crimes came from legal sources, or at one remove from legal sources:

sales from legal gun dealers
sales at gun shows
sales from legal dealers who will sell to pretty much anybody
straw buyers from legal dealers
people with no record who buy quantities of guns and resell them to criminals
burglaries from dealers
burglaries from legal owners (burglars are not totally stupid--it's not hard to tell when the lights are off and the car's not in the driveway--ten minutes and all those guns you bought for your protection did you absolutely no good because you weren't home, and you've just armed forty bad guys at one whack--good work, David).

It's really not "If guns are made criminal, only criminals will have guns", but rather
"If guns are made criminal, pretty soon criminals won't have guns either".

Yeah, like because marijuana was made criminal
pretty soon criminals won 't have it either, right ??

See above
as to hand made guns having centuries of history behind them,
before electric tools and freely available engineering technology
making it a lot faster & easier to manufacture them now.

Thay have even secretly made them in prisons,
with the guards around.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 09:55 pm
Stop selling guns and there won't be much demand for ammunition. No ammunition, no bang. A single-shot, prison-made zip gun is a fairly minor threat, particularly if there are no bullets. And you may have noticed, David, you can grow marijuana. You can't grow a gun. Thank goodness.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 10:21 pm
username wrote:
Stop selling guns and there won't be much demand for ammunition. No ammunition, no bang. A single-shot, prison-made zip gun is a fairly minor threat, particularly if there are no bullets. And you may have noticed, David, you can grow marijuana. You can't grow a gun. Thank goodness.

I guess then that LSD and PCP do not exist,
because u can t grow them ?

It is not a big challenge to make guns,
even without electric tools; the same applies to ammunition.

Personally, I have never been into making ammunition,
being satisfied with commericially available merchandise,
but I remember my neighbors in Arizona, a few decades ago,
who were enthusiastic about personally making
the very best ammunition, for match competition.

Thay did not trust the commercial stuff.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 10:45 pm
You do tend to blow yourself up when you make ammunition. Of course, that's good for the gene pool.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 11:18 pm
I don't think 'gun control' means making guns illegal. I just think it means tighter controls on who can have them, where they can store them.

David makes the mistake of thinking all people who kill people with guns were criminals BEFORE they pulled the trigger. And I haven't even touched on accidentally self inflicted death via gun - particularly with regards to children getting hold of poorly-secured weapons.

David I'm happy for you to compare deaths by guns before and after Australia introduced tougher gun control legislation in 1996. Of course you could argue that it only worked in Australia because we are much saner than the people of the USA but that seems farcical to me.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 11:21 pm
And on another tangent.

Imagine you are a policeman and you are about to enter a room with 50 people in it and you've been told one is a dangerous criminal.

In the US you burst into the room and all 50 have guns.

In Australia only one does.

Which policeman has the easier job to identify the criminal?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2008 01:49 am
hingehead wrote:
I don't think 'gun control' means making guns illegal.

I understand that it did in England; ( right or rong ? )
What 's the situation in Austrailia ?





Quote:
I just think it means tighter controls on who can have them,
where they can store them.

In America, as a condition of its existence,
government was deprived of any authority
to control guns
. Therefore, government here
can only legislate regarding citizens' possession
of guns by USURPATION of power,
the same as a decree ending the election process.

One reason for this deprivation of authority was
to enable the citizens to overthrow the government
that had just been created; this was discussed at the time,
by both the Federalists and the Antifederalists.

The Founders, who enacted the Bill of Rights,
were still breathing hard from the exertion
of overthrowing a government. Thay were very familiar
with that, up close and personal.

The concept of controling who can have guns,
can apply ONLY to citizens who are so obsessed
with obeying the law that thay exalt that ABOVE life itself;
above the ability to defend their lives or the lives of their mothers,
wives, and children. Criminals will not even stop to consider
such laws. Government is our servant not our master.



Quote:
David makes the mistake of thinking all people who kill people with guns
were criminals BEFORE they pulled the trigger.

Well, not ALL people, but almost 100% of criminals
are NOT virgins, as to violent crime:
thay usually have long feloniously violent histories.




Quote:
And I haven't even touched on accidentally self inflicted death via gun -

According to the National Safety Council,
more people drown every year, than die from gunfire.




Quote:
particularly with regards to children getting hold of poorly-secured weapons.

I armed myself with a .38 revolver when I was 8.
Took it everywhere.
Most of the kids in my neighborhood were as well armed.
We never had any trouble; no complaints of any person
of any age showing bad manners with guns.

Early hands-on education with guns is valuable
to safety and proficiency.


David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2008 01:58 am
If I chose to become a violent criminal,
I 'd go to England, for the protection of its gun prohibition,
so that I cud freely rob and slaughter English prey,
with on-the-job safety. I 'd not want to get hurt
while I am robbing and killing them.

I 'd feel all warm n safe with my Partner, the English government,
offering me the protection of its having disarmed my victims for me, prospectively;
so sweet of that government. ( Kiss the Queen for me. )




David
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Mar, 2008 04:58 pm
OSD - You keep refering to people's access to illegal drugs without acknowledging the alternative.

It's true that guns don't kill people by themselves. I've heard your arguments about cars killing people etc. In short, I wouldn't give a person without training a car. I think they should have to prove themselves in this regaurd to understand the consequences. What we are experiencing in america is partially the problem as you have desribed: Criminals not obeying existing laws. However, you seem to omit how the other side of the problem is that our capitolistic spirit lets our weapons vendors bend the existing laws.

I don't want to take your guns, I just think that we need to more heavily regulate how firearm transactions are being made. Things like waiting periods are good. Things like gun shows, are bad. Things like conceal and carry are good, they force people to respect the power they yeild. I honestly wouldn't object to requiring all gun owners to take this degree of training. I also believe that gun ownership should be taxed annually per firearm. Owning a gun is a responcibility.

I know you profess that you only serve your own interests, just realize that if you put your interests in opposition to the state, you'll lose. You're not that important.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
 

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