I don't want to lop off my dogs balls!

ehBeth wrote:

S'pposed to increase the dog's overall life expectancy.

I've heard both ways and given the inherent risks of the procedure itself I think it's about a wash for me insofar as my internal debate goes on this count.

boomerang wrote:

Reduces their chance for penis cancer.

If penis cancer isn't scary enough to convince you, nothing will.

I'm not sure at all that it's true, and have thus far only read of neutered dogs having a greater incidence (up to four times) the rate of prostate cancer (which I assume you are talking about) that intact dogs do.

Teske E, Nann EC, van Dijk EM, van Garderen E, Schalken JA (2002). "Canine prostate carcinoma: epidemiological evidence of an increased risk in castrated dogs.". Mol Cell Endocrinol. 197 (1-2): 251-255.

Sorenmo KU, Goldschmidt M, Shofer F, Ferrocone J (2003). "Immunohistochemical characterization of canine prostatic carcinoma and correlation with castration status and castration time". Vet Comparative Oncology. 1 (1): 48-56.

ehBeth wrote:

What has happened to you? what pod are you part of? what happened to pragmatism - common sense? whaaaaaaaaaaaaat ???

Yeah, well I was kidding about explaining it to Harry, but I need to explain it to myself if I'm going to lop off his nuts.

When did it become "common sense" to accept involuntary body modification so easily? The closest to a good reason I can think of is the urine marking, and I'd consider it if I were reasonably confident that it would eliminate this, but there's not a single other reason I think is legitimate in general or in my dog's case that is in any way positive.

Bella Dea wrote:

Well....he will do ANYTHING to get out if a female is in heat in your neighborhood.

Someone I knew had their bitch get pregnant....and the ironic thing was, she was fenced in the whole time. Chain link fence. The point here? They did it through the fence. That's how intense the drive is.

Get him fixed. You'll have a much nicer dog who doesn't want to run every chance he gets.

He already wants out anytime anything is in the neighborhood (animal, human or machine). I don't mind this at all and can train away any behavior that I dislike here (unlike the urine marking).

Eva wrote:

Seriously, it's your pet's balls we're talking about, RG, not yours! You sound like you're taking this personally!

Not personally in the sense that I am projecting my feelings onto the dog, but personally in the sense that this is my dog, and I finally have a personal reason to care about the ethics of neutering because I'm now presented with the decision.

Quote:

Do you know how many unwanted puppies are born and euthanized every year, all because people won't neuter & spay? If you don't plan to keep your dog for breeding, neutering him is the healthy and responsible thing to do. Don't be part of the problem.

I am not sure if I want to breed my dog or not, but at the same time am not at all concerned that my dog would be part of the problem. He is an indoor dog, and this isn't America where the houses are open (anywhere I'd live here would have 10-12 foot walls etc around the property) and a dog can reliably get loose. The problem isn't the same everywhere. Some nations aren't euthanizing dogs and cats. Some nations don't have the pet population problems that others have. And some people supervise their pets differently than others.

dlowan wrote:

1. Stop projecting. Nobody's gonna do anything to YOUR balls. Like, they won't drop off in sympathy, or be cursed by your actions and wither and die.

I'm not worried about my balls, they wouldn't be up for debate. ;-)

And if I can find a good reason (e.g. I am leaning towards it a bit now just on the basis of the urine marking) I won't have a problem with it. I just don't buy the arguments I have heard so far and have a particular distaste for involuntary body modification (and infliction of pain) and thusly more skeptical of societal acceptance to it.

cyphercat wrote:

So many millions of cats and dogs put to sleep every year and people still can't just get their damn pets fixed because "it's too mean!"

99% of statistics are made up on the spot. What if you are wrong?

If 0 are being put to sleep here or if my dog has no significant chance of contributing to the problem then curiosity would serve your position better than does righteous indignation.

So, how many animals are being put to sleep where I live (Costa Rica)? How likely is my dog to become part of the problem?

By my estimation, virtually none. What's yours?

Quote:

...it's somehow *not* mean to add to the number of animals getting put down, I suppose...it just burns me up.

I have no problem with addition. I do, however, have a problem with just making up information and assuming it justifies involuntary castration. All I want from society is some thought, and not to blindly ape some organization's (in your case the Humane Society) position.

dagmaraka wrote:

...and just to clarify...i wouldn't tell anyone to not do it....it's just that i will not do it.

similar to abortion: i will defend it till my last dying breath... but i myself would not ever do it.

Indeed, and the similarities to abortion are not lost on me either.

My problem is with the blind cultural acceptance of involuntary body modification. I don't have the data to be sure but I suspect it's a good idea for many pet owners in some places.

I just reject the notion that it's invariably so.

roger wrote:

I can't see how anyone can live with an unneutered or spayed cat, unless they just turn it loose to breed at will. If you do, you end up with lots of cute kittens, and a cat with a much lower life expectancy.

In the case of our female cat, I am leaning much more toward spaying than for the male dog.

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dlowan wrote:

Gargamel wrote:
dlowan wrote:
CowDoc wrote:
Neutering is not like a vasectomy. However, ejaculate - other than the sperm component - is produced in the seminal vesicles and prostate, rather than in the testes. The urge to copulate is stimulated by testosterone, but that hormone is produced in other glands as well, notably the adrenals. The act itself is governed by the autonomic nervous system, rather that the endocrine. That explains why neutered males of all mammalian species can still copulate, and further defines the "proud-cut" gelding. Does that make more sense?

You're a man who knows his balls, aren't you?

Did you know spayed or neutered rabbits live longer and behave better than those whose genitals are unaltered?

Fact.

My mother taught me perfect manners, thank you.

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well we all know dlowan still has huge balls...

Don't be ridiculous.....I have all I need.....normal gonads, kept on the INSIDE where they belong......a brain, a heart, and assorted WMD.

Gargamel wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well we all know dlowan still has huge balls...

You'd better duck.

Can we PLEASE not embroil the ducks in all this?

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
I'm a bear. we eat rabbits.

And I shoot bears if they even LOOK like they might be THINKING about eating me.

bullshit... no opposable thumbs....

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Gargamel wrote:
dlowan wrote:
CowDoc wrote:
Neutering is not like a vasectomy. However, ejaculate - other than the sperm component - is produced in the seminal vesicles and prostate, rather than in the testes. The urge to copulate is stimulated by testosterone, but that hormone is produced in other glands as well, notably the adrenals. The act itself is governed by the autonomic nervous system, rather that the endocrine. That explains why neutered males of all mammalian species can still copulate, and further defines the "proud-cut" gelding. Does that make more sense?

You're a man who knows his balls, aren't you?

Did you know spayed or neutered rabbits live longer and behave better than those whose genitals are unaltered?

Fact.

My mother taught me perfect manners, thank you.

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well we all know dlowan still has huge balls...

Don't be ridiculous.....I have all I need.....normal gonads, kept on the INSIDE where they belong......a brain, a heart, and assorted WMD.

Gargamel wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well we all know dlowan still has huge balls...

You'd better duck.

Can we PLEASE not embroil the ducks in all this?

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
I'm a bear. we eat rabbits.

And I shoot bears if they even LOOK like they might be THINKING about eating me.

Crap. My hands are like Bugses....and the opposeable thumbs can clearly be seen here:

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I suggest we now return this thread to Rob....er...I mean HARRY'S balls.

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dlowan wrote:

I suggest we now return this thread to Rob....er...I mean HARRY'S balls.

Yeah, and Dong Cancer prevention.

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Gargamel wrote:

dlowan wrote:
I suggest we now return this thread to Rob....er...I mean HARRY'S balls.

Yeah, and Dong Cancer prevention.

Does the presence/absence of the balls affect the likelihood of the Dong (this is penis, right?) developing cancer?

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I have taught someone a new synonym for penis. I have made a difference today.

And so I shall retire early. Goodnight, all.

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God bless you gargamel, and god bless america.

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Robert wrote:

"Some nations aren't euthanizing dogs and cats. Some nations don't have the pet population problems that others have. And some people supervise their pets differently than others."

Is that for real that Costa Ricans generally manage their domestic dogs/cats without the horrible problem of unwanted pups and kittens and the consequent animal carnage???? Wow.

If so, that's impressive.

Or are you just pointing out that YOUR dog will be well supervised?

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dlowan wrote:

Does the presence/absence of the balls affect the likelihood of the Dong (this is penis, right?) developing cancer?

That's what CowDoc (the one actual expert who posted on the thread) talked about.

(was CowDoc the only poster Robert didn't quote? telling, that)

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ehBeth wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Does the presence/absence of the balls affect the likelihood of the Dong (this is penis, right?) developing cancer?

That's what CowDoc (the one actual expert who posted on the thread) talked about.

(was CowDoc the only poster Robert didn't quote? telling, that)

I thought he had......but I think Robert has been busy looking up the actual current research, and had not found it convincing???

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My time in mexico was replete with stray dogs, pitiful stray dogs sometimes, and not so pitiful others. So was my time in venice, though not so much, but never mind. I've photos of mexican stray dogs, and one of the photographer who showed with us' photos of mexican stray dogs. I've got my own photos of stray dogs in italy. But of course, the parts of mexico he was in, and the parts I've been in may not at all relate to your walled community in costa rica; indeed I'd bet that within mexico and within costa rica things vary -- but that neutering is not the mode, as you said. (I might guess it happens in some places.) With me, stray dogs were not fully feral, being near me, by definition.

I'm not sure you're wrong on your view, re the free life of the dogs.

You can protect your dog from the life of these others, wherein he'd probably be cheese whiz in a short time.
The question devolves to... what is best for the dog - which you already said.

I'm not entirely adamant, not having known before this thread that there may or may not be medical reasons to do this for the good of the dog's health. As a postulate, that sounds weird to start with.

Two of my three dogs were neutered. One, railroad track dog, kept wandering. Pacco, found wandering in the first place, never wandered though he was a bundle of spitfire. Kelly the lumber yard irish setter wasn't neutered, and took two long romps, one from venice to redondo beach.

I wonder how many poodle setters now litter that land...

Probably none, as he followed a blond jogger all the way.

So I don't know, but I agree with listening to Cowdoc.

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Kelly was very tired that night.

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dlowan wrote:

Robert wrote:

"Some nations aren't euthanizing dogs and cats. Some nations don't have the pet population problems that others have. And some people supervise their pets differently than others."

Is that for real that Costa Ricans generally manage their domestic dogs/cats without the horrible problem of unwanted pups and kittens and the consequent animal carnage???? Wow.

If so, that's impressive.

Or are you just pointing out that YOUR dog will be well supervised?

well, some countries/communities do have a lot more cats and dogs than others. some communities have in fact no or very few pets. it's a cultural ting. in such, i'd imagine the overbreeding problem would not exist.
i've no idea about costa rica...just theorizin'.

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dagmaraka wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Robert wrote:

"Some nations aren't euthanizing dogs and cats. Some nations don't have the pet population problems that others have. And some people supervise their pets differently than others."

Is that for real that Costa Ricans generally manage their domestic dogs/cats without the horrible problem of unwanted pups and kittens and the consequent animal carnage???? Wow.

If so, that's impressive.

Or are you just pointing out that YOUR dog will be well supervised?

well, some countries/communities do have a lot more cats and dogs than others. some communities have in fact no or very few pets. it's a cultural ting. in such, i'd imagine the overbreeding problem would not exist.
i've no idea about costa rica...just theorizin'.

Indeed.....but I was specifically wondering about places where there ARE pets.

I just can't recall seeing any poor place without miserable cats and dogs running around, or any rich place where there is not discussion about the problem of unwanted animals.

I guess in some places they simply EAT them.

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hm, i thought we were talking predominantly about robert's dog. that's not a miserable street dog running around without control, breeding left and right more miserable dogs... stray animals are a whole different bag.
again, i am all for letting people choose what's best for their pets. i would hope i have the same right as those that neuter their pets.

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.... thinking of poor communities - most Roma settlements in Slovakia that i've been to are pet free - and no, they do not eat them. the relationship simply never took, pet ownership didn't make it there from mainstream community.

I presume you'd find many communities throughout africa and asia (possibly elsewhere) without cats and dogs whatsoever - where it just never existed.

and many where they would be purely stray, not domestic pets (alas, most of india).

...all interesting topis in cultural anthropology, for sure... but still rather different from robert's case.

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dagmaraka wrote:

hm, i thought we were talking predominantly about robert's dog. that's not a miserable street dog running around without control, breeding left and right more miserable dogs... stray animals are a whole different bag.
again, i am all for letting people choose what's best for their pets. i would hope i have the same right as those that neuter their pets.

I was not arguing about Robert's dog, nor suggesting that Harry will be forced to roam the streets a miserable, dust-bin tipping outcast, whose only glimmer of joy is to impregnate as many bitches as possible and cause a ginormous explosion of ridiculously small fuzzballs. (He'd likely need to carry around a step-ladder, so as to be able to reach ladies of the canine kind less vertically challenged than he, anyway, when you think about it.)

If Rob says he will adequately supervise Harry, and has the walls to do it, I believe he'll do it. I am happy for Harry and his balls to remain together! May they jiggle and jounce about beneath him for many joyous years! May he lick them with gusto and that special loud, wet and smacking dog-licking-its-balls sound, (and that dopey ecstatic unfocused look) to the envy of all surrounding male humans, and hopefully in especially embarrassing circumstances, such as the mass entertainment of elderly nuns, shy blushing virgins, and puritanical prospective clients!!!!

I was simply struck with curiosity about whether there really are places where enough humans act responsibly about their pets that there is no horrible problem with unwanted critters.

Settle down!

I just thought of this song that Boomer asked about ages ago!!!

Here's to Harry's Balls.

Chorus:
Ting-a-ling, God damn, find a woman if you can.
If you can't find a woman, find a clean old man.
If you're ever in Gibraltar, take a flying **** at Walter.
Can you do the double shuffle when your balls hang low?

Do your balls hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Can you throw 'em o'er your shoulder like a Continental soldier?
Can you do the double shuffle when your balls hang low?

Do your balls hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Do they make a lusty clamor when you hit them with a hammer?
Can you do the double shuffle when your balls hang low?

Do your balls hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Can you bounce 'em off the wall like an Indian rubber ball?
Can you do the double shuffle when your balls hang low?

Do your balls hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Do they have a hollow sound when you drag 'em on the ground?
Can you do the double shuffle when your balls hang low?

Do your balls hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Do they have a mellow tingle when you hit 'em with a shingle?
Can you do the double shuffle when your balls hang low?

Do your balls hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Do they have a salty taste when you wrap 'em 'round your waist?
Can you do the double shuffle when your balls hang low?

Do your balls hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Do they chime like a gong when you pull upon your dong?
Can you do the double shuffle when your balls hang low?

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i am perfectly settled down, thankee. i do find this interesting culturally. that's all.
(caps lock and exclamation points do tend to sound like shouting to me, perhaps you weren't really shouting. hard to tell from reading only).

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dagmaraka wrote:

i am perfectly settled down, thankee. i do find this interesting culturally. that's all.
(caps lock and exclamation points do tend to sound like shouting to me, perhaps you weren't really shouting. hard to tell from reading only).

Not shouting...simply frustrated that you appeared to continue rather hotly to defend a position I was not assailing.

And attempting to make my point in a humorous and perfectly clear manner.

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I don't want to lop off my dogs balls!

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