life after death

Arella Mae wrote:

Ok, Curtis, I'm very curious. You believe in talking to the dead but you seem to have rejected the God of the Bible (I think that is what you posted somewhere. If it wasn't you, please just ignore this.) Why would you believe in talking to the dead but not in the God of the Bible?

I have not rejected the god of the bible, I have rejected the bible.

And to be clear, most literal interpretations of the bible don't speak about heaven as a place where you go when you die. The literal interpretation is that souls sleep until the rapture. So if you believe the bible, I couldn't possibly be talking to the dead since they're all asleep until Christ comes again.

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You said - "I'm a bit of pagan myself. I find that nature brings out the best of me in the spiritual sense. Part of my profession is doing "remembrance gardens". We create a garden that becomes a living representation of the departed with keys to that person's personality and preferences in the plants and sculpture we use. If you don't have space, a single tree will do or donate a tree to local botanical garden or park in honor of the person. It becomes a nicer place than a cemetery to make a pilgrimage".[/quote]

Hi Green Witch,

Remembrance gardens are lovely, but are sometimes impersonal. We are planting a yew tree on top and the Pagan Federation are sponsoring several trees with the Woodland trust, so life, I suppose, goes on in some sense.

I suppose I want the experience of my husband to come back and say eg say hey I'm here, its ok, I am around you! but it doesn't happen that way does it and that is the hard thing about it!

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curtis73 wrote:

I have not rejected the god of the bible, I have rejected the bible.

And to be clear, most literal interpretations of the bible don't speak about heaven as a place where you go when you die. The literal interpretation is that souls sleep until the rapture. So if you believe the bible, I couldn't possibly be talking to the dead since they're all asleep until Christ comes again.

Ok, but I'm still confused. You don't reject the God of the Bible but you reject the Bible itself? I am not sure I understand how you can reject one without rejecting the other.

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What's on the other side of death's door?

On the other side of death's door is a state of awareness where we contemplate our life experiences. We decide where we have succeeded or failed in our intended goals of previous incarnations. We then decide when to incarnate again and under what conditions, probabilities and circumstances that incarnation will take place.

When all the necessary incarnations have taken place for us to attain our goals, we then gravitate back into the Oneness of God allowing for the fulfillment thereof.

i choose

i chose to be born, - to live or die,
Even the sex, that would be i;
i chose the race, from which to appear,
Also my wealth, my health and my fear.

i chose my trials and stumbling blocks,
And the legs i would use, in all of those walks;
i chose my sadness, my joy and my love,
i chose to serve and not be above.

i chose this life - with all of its dues,
And with each dawn, again i choose;
The experiences for me that wait ahead,
To be alive, or be claimed dead.

And of the future lives i've yet,
It is my choice that i begat;
All the things, however pleasin',
That shall befall me in those seasons.

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We decided whether to incarnate again or not? Huh? Since when do we, as human beings, have that kind of power?

May I ask your reference for your views please?

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Re: life after death

Black tulip wrote:

just wanted to ask who believes in life after death? Do you have any proof if so what?

A good website is Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife. Some of these cases are very hard to explain without assuming that consciousness exists independent of brain functioning, so that consciousness is not extinguished when the body dies.

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Re: life after death

IFeelFree wrote:

Black tulip wrote:
just wanted to ask who believes in life after death? Do you have any proof if so what?

A good website is Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife. Some of these cases are very hard to explain without assuming that consciousness exists independent of brain functioning, so that consciousness is not extinguished when the body dies.

I have heard this theory recently, not sure whether I believe or not. Thanks for the link. X

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Re: life after death

Black tulip wrote:

just wanted to ask who believes in life after death? Do you have any proof if so what? Is life preordained or just luck? How many of you believe in the never ender circle or back to Godhead?

I am just looking for answers my self - that is if there is any!

I've taken kind of a middle road on this one. Though I'm still a little confused about a few things to be honest. I believe in spirituality. I believe there is a spirit world. How much of that is demons vs angels... well hum... But I believe we have a spirit of some sort that lives on. Whether or not that spirit (soul whatever you want to call it) actually "goes somewhere" like say... heaven or hell... who's to say? Is there really any way to actually know?

I can tell you this though something strange has happened in the last year or so. Both of my fathers died last year. (No sympathy required at that statement) My stepfather in May and my paternal father in Sept. Since their deaths I have very strongly at times sensed my step fathers presence. (Would that be the right word?) I've felt as though he was very close at times. He... was a "believer". However, my paternal father is gone. Almost as if he never existed sometimes and honestly, even though I still talk to him occasionally I don't ever feel him close. He was not a "believer".

I've asked myself several times, "Is he in hell?" Silly I know, but still I wonder sometimes. Why would I feel close to one and not the other? Is it a matter of the relationship we had before they died? Or is there some "God" out there that would send one to hell and bring the other to heaven? All questions that will never be answered. I've had different "paranormal" experiences through-out my life. Things that have led me to always believe there was something more than just "us" out there. (Nope, not talking about aliens here) But how can you sift through imagination verses the implanting of ideals from horror films, tv, and whatever else?

Because what's "proof" to me is surely not going to be "proof" to at least 50 percent of the people we're surrounded by. There's a kink in everyone's armor somewhere and as rock solid as anyone believes their theory is... there's someone out there who thinks they have "proof" for the opposite. So I guess that to me would be the never ending circle of life. We're damned if we "believe" and we're damned if we don't.

lol

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Dagnabit...

There I go killin threads again! Shocked

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Heph? Is that you?

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Arella Mae wrote:

curtis73 wrote:
I have not rejected the god of the bible, I have rejected the bible.

And to be clear, most literal interpretations of the bible don't speak about heaven as a place where you go when you die. The literal interpretation is that souls sleep until the rapture. So if you believe the bible, I couldn't possibly be talking to the dead since they're all asleep until Christ comes again.

Ok, but I'm still confused. You don't reject the God of the Bible but you reject the Bible itself? I am not sure I understand how you can reject one without rejecting the other.

The bible speaks about God, although in my opinion it doesn't do a very good job of it. So when I say "the god of the bible" I'm not saying "the god as the bible describes it." I'm saying "the same god about which we all have different opinions."

So I don't believe that the bible is a truthful representation of its original godly form, but I believe that the god referred to in the bible is the true god - just not as the bible describes her. I understand how it was confusing before, sorry for the mixup Smile

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Arella Mae wrote:

Heph? Is that you?

Yep it's me. Mr. Green

Long time no talk!

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curtis73 wrote:

The bible speaks about God, although in my opinion it doesn't do a very good job of it. So when I say "the god of the bible" I'm not saying "the god as the bible describes it." I'm saying "the same god about which we all have different opinions."

So I don't believe that the bible is a truthful representation of its original godly form, but I believe that the god referred to in the bible is the true god - just not as the bible describes her. I understand how it was confusing before, sorry for the mixup

Makes perfect sense to someone I'm sure. Shocked

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I work well with analogies.

Lets say you read a book that said "Abraham Lincoln sailed the ocean blue in 1492." To say that you don't believe that book does not mean you don't believe in Abraham Lincoln, it simply means that you don't believe that Abe was a Portugese explorer. You have a different view of Abe because you know he was a US president.

I believe in God, but the bible doesn't paint an accurate picture of god so I choose not to believe the bible's depiction of god.

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I don't think it's so much the bibles depiction of god that's so warped as it is the majority of those who claim to understand the bible's depiction of him.

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Thought this was a thread about life after death, it always falls into bible/god debates.

Maybe the topic title should have been "Does the conscious survive the death of the body, plz don't mention god or bible"

An interesting read is "Is There an Afterlife?: A Comprehensive Overview of the Evidence by David Fontana" , a non-religious investigation into the survival of the consciousness.

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agreed, BDV.

I say, yes there is an afterlife.

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Eorl wrote:

I think death is most likely death. That's why it's called death.

Some people don't think that sounds like fun, so they choose to find another happier definition.

Not unlike the bible's description of the time of death when "In that day his thoughts do perish. . . " (Psalm 146:4)

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neologist wrote:

Eorl wrote:
I think death is most likely death. That's why it's called death.

Some people don't think that sounds like fun, so they choose to find another happier definition.
Not unlike the bible's description of the time of death when "In that day his thoughts do perish. . . " (Psalm 146:4)

I think that viewing death as simply the end is a pretty pessimistic thing. I think that the sum of energies, thoughts, memories, and personality; the very essences of who we are, are more than something that simply just quits. I don't think of it as a happier definition, I just think that if you simply define death as "death" then you are lowering your standards to a the point where they're already met. Its a very unenlightened view that requires no complex thought or introspection. Its kinda like having a pain and not going to the doctor because you don't want to know the answer. Rejecting complex thought because you don't like the ramifications isn't truth, its simply denial.

Neo, if we're going to use Psalms as a reference for the truth, let us not forget Psalm 137 which tells us that we are blessed (speaking of death) if we smash children's heads against rocks to kill them:

ESV psalms 137 wrote:

8 O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed,
blessed shall he be who repays you
with what you have done to us!
9 Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones
and smashes them against the rock!

I'm still waiting for a Babylonian kid to happen by so I can fulfill god's will.

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curtis73 wrote:

neologist wrote:
Eorl wrote:
I think death is most likely death. That's why it's called death.

Some people don't think that sounds like fun, so they choose to find another happier definition.
Not unlike the bible's description of the time of death when "In that day his thoughts do perish. . . " (Psalm 146:4)

I think that viewing death as simply the end is a pretty pessimistic thing. I think that the sum of energies, thoughts, memories, and personality; the very essences of who we are, are more than something that simply just quits. I don't think of it as a happier definition, I just think that if you simply define death as "death" then you are lowering your standards to a the point where they're already met. Its a very unenlightened view that requires no complex thought or introspection. Its kinda like having a pain and not going to the doctor because you don't want to know the answer. Rejecting complex thought because you don't like the ramifications isn't truth, its simply denial.

Neo, if we're going to use Psalms as a reference for the truth, let us not forget Psalm 137 which tells us that we are blessed (speaking of death) if we smash children's heads against rocks to kill them:

ESV psalms 137 wrote:
8 O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed,
blessed shall he be who repays you
with what you have done to us!
9 Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones
and smashes them against the rock!

I'm still waiting for a Babylonian kid to happen by so I can fulfill god's will.

Simply a pronouncement against Babylon who treated the Jews likewise. The word 'blessed' is more accurately translated as 'happy' and does not apply to any action by God's people against Babylonians. It is prophetic, having 2 fulfillments, the first against the ancient kingdom of Babylon, the second against Babylon the Great (Revelation 18:6)

As for our own wishful thinking about death, it is hardly up to us to rethink reality.

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life after death

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