0
   

Culligan Gold Programming Question

 
 
mdwerne
 
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 01:17 pm
Hello,

I recently purchased a new Culligan 10" Gold Water Softener (with a flow meter, not an Aqua Sensor). My dealer has been helpful but due to some lengthy issues/complicated issues, I wanted to ask for an unbiased answer to a couple quick questions.

The details of our household:

5 People
30 GPG Hard
10" Unit can "handle" 46,800 grains of hardness at an 18 lb dosage
No iron
pH is fine

I'm trying to get to get a regeneration cycle of no less than every 4 days.

Q's

1) Do I need to manually set the salt (KCL) dosage or does the unit somehow automagically know what to set? After the installer left, the salt dosage is at 13 lbs.

2) The 10" unit normally comes with an 18" 375 lb brine tank, due to circumstances, I'm actually using a 16" 250 lb brine tank. Should I be worried about over flowing? or does the float need to be set to a different level?

3) There is a nozzle called an "Eductor Nozzle". The owners manual states the 10" Gold unit uses a Beige nozzle, the one in my unit is Blue. Will that make a difference?

4) Does the Maxcapp or batch setting need to be manually adjusted?

Basically on all the questions, I had a 9" resin tank switched out for a 10" tank. All the installer did was change the programming to reflect the 9" to 10" change, nothing else. I'm not convinced that the settings were "right" to begin with and that there isn't something more that needs to be adjusted given the details of my household.

I hope this makes some sense...

-Mike
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 9,136 • Replies: 8
No top replies

 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 02:00 pm
Re: Culligan Gold Programming Question
mdwerne wrote:
Hello, I recently purchased a new Culligan 10" Gold Water Softener (with a flow meter, not an Aqua Sensor). My dealer has been helpful but due to some lengthy issues/complicated issues, I wanted to ask for an unbiased answer to a couple quick questions.

The details of our household:

5 People
30 GPG Hard
10" Unit can "handle" 46,800 grains of hardness at an 18 lb dosage
No iron
pH is fine

I'm trying to get to get a regeneration cycle of no less than every 4 days.

Q's

1) Do I need to manually set the salt (KCL) dosage or does the unit somehow automagically know what to set? After the installer left, the salt dosage is at 13 lbs.

2) The 10" unit normally comes with an 18" 375 lb brine tank, due to circumstances, I'm actually using a 16" 250 lb brine tank. Should I be worried about over flowing? or does the float need to be set to a different level?

3) There is a nozzle called an "Eductor Nozzle". The owners manual states the 10" Gold unit uses a Beige nozzle, the one in my unit is Blue. Will that make a difference?

4) Does the Maxcapp or batch setting need to be manually adjusted?

Basically on all the questions, I had a 9" resin tank switched out for a 10" tank. All the installer did was change the programming to reflect the 9" to 10" change, nothing else. I'm not convinced that the settings were "right" to begin with and that there isn't something more that needs to be adjusted given the details of my household.

I hope this makes some sense...

-Mike

I say the unit is too small to give you anything more than terrible salt and water efficiency. A 10" tank usually will be a 1.5 cuft unit. They must be using fine mesh or SST-60 resin to get 46.8K in 1.5 cuft but, that is still only 2600 grains/lb salt efficiency. And that will give you a regeneration every 4 days with a 24 hr reserve of 9k but, if it is set for 13 lbs, you get less K of capacity and more frequent regenerations which uses a lot more water and salt than I would have sized your softener for.

The brine tank should be large enough if you don't fill it with salt.

If fine mesh resin, then the injector should be different, and the DLFC will be different too but..

What specific problems are you having?
0 Replies
 
mdwerne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 04:21 pm
Hi Gary,

Thanks for the information.

First to answer your question...I am having no problems to speak of other than the fact that I'm am regenerating more often than I'd like.

The other questions are based on a slight lack of confidence in the programming of the unit and it's compatibility with the parts that came with the 9" unit. You are correct, the 10" (1.5cf) is a bit undersized, but it's better than the 9" 1.0cf I was originally sold. Sadly I'm learning as I go. :-(

They told me the Eductor Nozzle that came with the 9" was interchangeable with the 10". The owners manual lists a different Nozzle but the service manual (which I got directly from Culligan) states either or. Because I have no clue what the Eductor Nozzle does, I wanted to ask here. I'd rather not go 10 years down the road only to find that the settings/parts were incorrect/inefficient.

Speaking of efficiency, the owners manual states 4,800 gr/lb @ 6 lb salt dosage. Is that pretty bad or average? The specsl also state that I need set the salt to 18lbs to get 46,800 out of the unit. I assume I have to do this manually?

Any other advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated...short of returning the unit. ;-)

Thanks again,

-Mike
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 05:57 pm
mdwerne wrote:
The other questions are based on a slight lack of confidence in the programming of the unit and it's compatibility with the parts that came with the 9" unit. You are correct, the 10" (1.5cf) is a bit undersized, but it's better than the 9" 1.0cf I was originally sold. Sadly I'm learning as I go. :-(

It is still the wrong size and if they replaced an undersized new 9", they didn't do the job right and should replace this one too.

mdwerne wrote:
They told me the Eductor Nozzle that came with the 9" was interchangeable with the 10". The owners manual lists a different Nozzle but the service manual (which I got directly from Culligan) states either or. Because I have no clue what the Eductor Nozzle does, I wanted to ask here. I'd rather not go 10 years down the road only to find that the settings/parts were incorrect/inefficient.

That's their cute name for an injector. It has to be the right one for a 10" tank or the unit won't brine correctly.

mdwerne wrote:
Speaking of efficiency, the owners manual states 4,800 gr/lb @ 6 lb salt dosage. Is that pretty bad or average? The specsl also state that I need set the salt to 18lbs to get 46,800 out of the unit. I assume I have to do this manually?

When you were here months ago with your Rainsoft problems, you should have learned all about correctly sizing a softener but... maybe that wasn't you.

That 4800 is great efficiency but you aren't working with 6lb/cuft (1.5*6=9lbs), you are at 13lbs (13/1.5=8.7lbs/cuft) and we don't know the efficiency because we have to know the capacity it regenerates. And to get 46.8K, you need to use 18 lbs, and 18/1.5 = 2600 grains/lb efficiency.

The K of capacity is dictated by the salt dose lbs in a given volume and type of resin. IOWs, the K of capacity is adjustable and depends on the salt dose for whatever cuft of resin in the tank. The maximum capacity uses the maximum lbs of salt.

Just minutes ago a guy in NV ordered a 2.5 cuft for his 4 person household with 25 gpg water and he will program 14.5 lbs and 48K. He has a large tub and 3.5 bathrooms with 1" plumbing and that 2.5 cuft gives him a constant SFR of 18 gpm. It will regenerate on average every 8 days.

mdwerne wrote:
Any other advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated...short of returning the unit. ;-)

Sorry, right is right and returning the unit (replacing with the correct size tank with the proper volume of resin and injector for the valve) is the only correct advice. Make them do it right or live with it for a decade or more...
mdwerne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 08:37 am
Hi Gary,

Again your wealth of information is astounding...thank you for sharing it.

1st off yes, it was me with the Rainsoft unit months ago (I gave up on it, forever). I need to go re-read your replies, obviously I missed something. Embarrassed

What your saying makes complete sense, I wish I had a better grasp of all the concepts. Slowly, they are all coming together. I need to buy the book "Water Softeners for Dummies".

I based my decision on getting the 10" unit on these numbers and assuming a regeneration every 4 days.

5 people x 75 gallons each used per day = 375 (which we rarely use, more like 250 Gallons per day)
375 gallons used per day x 30 GPG Hard = 11250 Grains needed to be removed per day.
The 10 inch unit states 46,800 can be removed at an 18 lb dosage, so.
46,800 total grains / 11,250 needed to be removed per day = 4.16 days between regeneration. It sounds like your saying I should have picked a bigger unit that could go longer between regenerations?

Regarding the Eductor (injector)...even through the service manual states either/or on the Blue or the Beige, sounds like I should just ask for the Beige anyway. The owners manual states a Brine Refill Flow 0.45 gpm for either of those two nozzles. I'm not sure what the difference would be.

Regarding the resin, they call it Cullex Media, not sure what the actual composition is.

What I have learned thus far from you...

I need to manually set to KCL dosage, and 13 lbs is obviously incorrect.
The Eductor Nozzle (injector) probably needs to be replaced.
The smaller Brine Tank should be fine as long as I don't load it to full (maybe halfway?).
I should strongly consider going to a larger unit. They have a 2.0cf and a 3.0cf. I'm not sure how I would present my case to them considering they have already upgraded for free from the 9" to the 10". Based on how you size softeners, is the 10" greatly undersized for my family, or just slightly?

Thanks and have a great day!!

-Mike
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 04:14 pm
mdwerne wrote:
I based my decision on getting the 10" unit on these numbers and assuming a regeneration every 4 days.

5 people x 75 gallons each used per day = 375 (which we rarely use, more like 250 Gallons per day)
375 gallons used per day x 30 GPG Hard = 11250 Grains needed to be removed per day.
The 10 inch unit states 46,800 can be removed at an 18 lb dosage, so.
46,800 total grains / 11,250 needed to be removed per day = 4.16 days between regeneration. It sounds like your saying I should have picked a bigger unit that could go longer between regenerations?

I don't know the Gold Series, but if metered/demand regenerated it has to have a 24 hr reserve capacity calculated. You subtract 11250 grains from the capacity the salt dose creates. I.E. 46800-11250=35550, then 35550/11200= a regeneration every 3.1 days. At 18 lbs of salt. That is done to prevent you from running out of capacity if the gallons run down to 0 gals remaining, until the next 2:00 AM when a regeneration can be done. I use 60 gals/person/day (300/day).

mdwerne wrote:
Regarding the Eductor (injector)...even through the service manual states either/or on the Blue or the Beige, sounds like I should just ask for the Beige anyway. The owners manual states a Brine Refill Flow 0.45 gpm for either of those two nozzles. I'm not sure what the difference would be.

I can't tell you anything about that.

mdwerne wrote:
I need to manually set to KCL dosage, and 13 lbs is obviously incorrect.

To use potassium chloride, with a salt dose of 6 lbs/cuft you need to increase the salt dose by 12%, less salt/cuft, then you raise it by up to 30%.

mdwerne wrote:
The smaller Brine Tank should be fine as long as I don't load it to full (maybe halfway?).

That depends on the salt dose lbs and size of teh salt tank and how much salt is in teh tank and if you have a salt grid on not... So after a regen, look at how high the water is and how much salt you have in the tank.

mdwerne wrote:
I should strongly consider going to a larger unit. They have a 2.0cf and a 3.0cf. I'm not sure how I would present my case to them considering they have already upgraded for free from the 9" to the 10". Based on how you size softeners, is the 10" greatly undersized for my family, or just slightly?

I don't know either without paying a premium but ask. The size of a softener is usually stated in K of capacity although I talk cuft volume. A 4.0 set at 72k and 22 lbs of salt with a regeneration on average 8 days is what I'd suggest DEPENDING on the age of the kids. If teenagers about to leave, smaller but a 2.0 or 3.0 or 3.5 cuft gets you iinto better water and salt use efficiencies.
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 04:42 am
@Gary Slusser,
Gary Slusser wrote:


That 4800 is great efficiency but you aren't working with 6lb/cuft (1.5*6=9lbs), you are at 13lbs (13/1.5=8.7lbs/cuft) and we don't know the efficiency because we have to know the capacity it regenerates. And to get 46.8K, you need to use 18 lbs, and 18/1.5 = 2600 grains/lb efficiency.

The K of capacity is dictated by the salt dose lbs in a given volume and type of resin. IOWs, the K of capacity is adjustable and depends on the salt dose for whatever cuft of resin in the tank. The maximum capacity uses the maximum lbs of salt.

Just minutes ago a guy in NV ordered a 2.5 cuft for his 4 person household with 25 gpg water and he will program 14.5 lbs and 48K. He has a large tub and 3.5 bathrooms with 1" plumbing and that 2.5 cuft gives him a constant SFR of 18 gpm. It will regenerate on average every 8 days.


Please give me an idea about this salt usage. You seem to know about how to calculate salt use for a period of a year, right?
4 people (x 60 = 240/day)
19 grains per gallon
0.5 ppm iron
normal water use

If this were consistent for a year, how much salt would your Clack use in one year?
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 12:26 pm
@Andy CWS,
As I've replied in many old threads you've post this in, as soon as you show us the Kinetico figures for whatever model Kinetico you use.
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 12:28 pm
@Gary Slusser,
Gary Slusser wrote:

As I've replied in many old threads you've post this in, as soon as you show us the Kinetico figure for whatever model Kinetico you use.


No, tooo late for that, brother. You are the one who accused me of misrepresenting this info to my customers.

Nah, you can't get out of it that way. Besides, YOU SAID you have Kinetico's numbers and have already put in--what was it?--enormous amount of time and came up with a calculation that suits you just fine. What can I add? You have already stated what the Kinetico can do. So that is a done deal and, thus, becomes a moot point, Gary.

Tries these numbers for a comparison:
Please give me an idea about this salt usage. You seem to know about how to calculate salt use for a period of a year, right?
4 people (x 60 = 240/day)
19 grains per gallon
0.5 ppm iron
normal water use

If this were consistent for a year, how much salt would your Clack use in one year?

Listen, it's the Holidays and I am enjoying time with my friends and family surrounded by good cheer and celebrations. I can understand if this is getting frustrating for you as you just keep cut-n-pasting and avoid answering a very basic question concerning the equipment you deal with everyday (READ: should be ale to calculate off the top of your head).

But, you see, I am not as smart as you nor do I understand your extremely high efficiency settings. That's why I look forward to your simple, clear calculation.

Just pretend I am your customer and you want me to know how much salt my family would use in a year given the following data:

4 people (x 60 = 240/day)
19 grains per gallon
0.5 ppm iron
normal water use

---I just thought of something...maybe there's is another reason you can't do this. Uhm? Naah, can't be true!
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Poo-tee-weet? - Question by boomerang
Let's just rename them "Rapeublicans" - Discussion by DrewDad
Which wood laminate flooring? - Question by Buffalo
Metal Roofs pros & con s - Question by Swimpy
Buying a new entry door - Question by sozobe
Need water help - Question by richierich
Lifesource Water versus a 'salt' system - Discussion by USBound
Rainsoft - Discussion by richb1
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Culligan Gold Programming Question
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/14/2021 at 05:38:52