Is Reality a Social Construction ?

@Frank Apisa,

Frank, you do realize, I hope, that I have been arguing all along (I think since Abuzz) that I am an "atheist" not because I believe in a No-God and worship Him. I am an atheist only in the sense that theism makes no sense to me. That's not a guess. It's a description of my state of mind regarding all Abrahamic religions.

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@JLNobody,

JLN, None of the religions of this world makes any sense to me! They all pray to a god without having one ounce of evidence their god exists.

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c.i.

Regarding evidence.

The function of of "the God concept" like all concepts. is to assist humans to predict and control. Many believers "predict their afterlife" in return for faith which is the insurance premium on the policy never claimed against in "this life". Evidence ruled out

Some believers use the concept to close a potentially uncontrollable void of purposeless and insignificance which they fill with God's Love.
Evidence lies in the eye of the beholder or even in an epiphany of rapture.

Then we have those who see life and the workings of the universe as too clever to be controlled without a designer
Evidence is everywhere.

Finally we need to consider the control of social systems and the behaviour of their adherents God's laws give "divine authority" for pragmatic control mechanisms and reify social power structures (e.g. the priesthood). The acceptance of such control mechanisms is conditioned through socialization via religious language.
Evidence lies in the conditioned perception of God-based social reality

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@fresco,

...and just to reiterate, from the viewpoint of "existance" as "relationship", theists and God co-exist and are co-extensive by virtue of their relationship. That relationship may or may not involve the concept of "evidence" which has a role in the negotiation of the utility of other concepts. Would we seek "evidence" say for the concept "the USA" ? It "exists" by virtue its differential relationships it has with of "its citizens" and "others". By analogy, cconsider so too the "existence of God" .

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@fresco,

Fresco wrote:

Quote:

The point is .....DID THEY ? Think back to being in the actual situation.

After more thought and consideration….YES, they did! I am not sure why you think they cannot co-exist…other than by thinking that, you are reinforcing this guesswork that runs your life.

Quote:

BTW Where is that "Frank that resolved never to come back to A2K" ?

Did I actually say that? I very, very seldom use “never” in that kind of thought process…but if I did, I was shooting off my mouth. But the operative phrase there is “IF” I did!

As I remember it, my intentions were to take a very long vacation from A2K…and I’ve been gone for about two years. I tried to look up any good-by thread I may have written…but I cannot find one in the My Topics section.

Think back, Fresco. Are you absolutely sure that I resolved never to come back to A2K? If not, why did you ask the question the way you did.

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@cicerone imposter,

c.i. wrote:

Quote:

The only difference being I don't try to impose my guesses on others concerning the existence or non-existence of any god.

I stand by my belief that there are no gods. Others are welcome to believe any thing they wish concerning gods.

What differences???

What are you talking about here?

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@JLNobody,

JL, you wrote:

Quote:

Frank, you do realize, I hope, that I have been arguing all along (I think since Abuzz) that I am an "atheist" not because I believe in a No-God and worship Him. I am an atheist only in the sense that theism makes no sense to me. That's not a guess. It's a description of my state of mind regarding all Abrahamic religions.

What does that have to do with anything I’ve said here???

And since “atheist” is a word that means “without gods”…why would you use it to describe a condition you have with a particular god?

Last thought: You mentioned earlier that you and Fresco “consider your truth propositions to be taken provisionally.”

I’d really like that fleshed out a bit…and stated emphatically"because if you two actually are saying that you do not know the true nature of the Reality of existence and are merely presenting an interesting and persuasive possible scenario…we are five by five on it.

But I don’t think that is the case at all.

I think you two both are asserting that you do know several things about Reality…and you are insisting that they are so simply because you are asserting them to be so.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank,

Despite what you say, I doubt whether you were conscious of both of "your facets" being present at the same time since most observers report to the contrary about themselves.

And whether or not your resolution was to "take a vacation" or "disappear" from A2K you must have been aware of your internal debate preceding such a decision. My point is "who" or "what" was having that debate ?

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@fresco,

Fresco wrote:

Quote:

Despite what you say, I doubt whether "facets" were both present since most observers report to the contrary about themselves.

That is too illogical to be coming from you.

Has someone stolen Fesco’s computer?

Quote:

And whether or not your resolution was to "take a vacation" or "disappear" from A2K you must have been aware of your internal debate preceding such a decision. My point is "who" or "what" was having that debate ?

I was having the “debate” with myself…if “debate” is the word you want to use.

I realize you want to use something here as evidence that your blind guesses about the Reality of existsence are more than just blind guesses…but you are doing a terrible job of it!”

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank,

Regarding "fleshing out" my position all I will say is:

(1) "Truth" is "what works" and (2) My nondualistic thesis works better than your naive realism one.

I presume you understand that your general rejoinder if "How do you know that to be true ? would be ludicrous.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I was having the “debate” with myself "

Now why would "you" need to talk to "yourself" if there is only "one" of you ?
Indeed maybe there was whole committee involved ! Wink

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@fresco,

Fresco...you are so in love with your blind guesses about Reality...so unwilling to acknowledge them for what they are…that discussing it with you is itself "ludicrous."

I discuss it “with you” not to connect with you...that seems to be impossible...but to let anyone reading what you write hear an alternative perspective.

If the "others" think you are making more sense than I...fine! If the "others" think my position seems more reasonable...fine!

But my friend, if you do not realize that all you have going here is a belief system...(one just as certain it contains truth as does Christianity, for one)...then you are in big time denial.

JL...does Fresco really sound to you as though he intends his “truth assertions” to be “taken provisionally?”

And do you agree with him that my position “I do not know what the true nature of the Reality of existence is?”…has less “truth” going for it than his silly, blind guesses about that nature?

Do you really agree with that, JL?

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@fresco,

Fresco wrote:

Quote:

Now why would "you" need to talk to "yourself" if there is only "one" of you ?
Indeed maybe there was whole committee involved !

You are really out of touch, Fresco...and getting further and further out of touch with each post!

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

You are really out of touch, Fresco...and getting further and further out of touch with each post!

.... and which one of the committee came up with that "debating tactic" ?

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@fresco,

The notion of there being a committee in my mind, Fresco...is just another of those blind guesses and delusions which seem to fill yours.

Enjoy the guessing...and the repartee’.

I certainly am.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank,

Your statement

"I do not know what the true nature of the Reality of existence is?” is incomplete. Surely you want to add " so nor does anybody else." ?

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@fresco,

Fresco...you wrote:

Quote:

""I do not know what the true nature of the Reality of existence is?” is incomplete. Surely you want to add " so nor does anybody else." ?

How the hell would I know what other people do or do not know, Fresco.

I leave that knowing pretence kind of nonsense for you.

If you are actually asking me if I KNOW that you do not KNOW the Reality of existence...I WILL SAY WITHOUT DELAY THAT I DO NOT KNOW.

I would be guessing if I ever said that you do not know the nature of the Reality of existence.

It would be A GUESS.

Of course, any ethical, honest person would acknowledge that a guess is a guess...so no big deal there.

Gotta worry about the people who do not know...yet who assert material that suggests that they DO know...but when questioned about it, refuse to acknowledge that they are simply guessing.

You do realize those kinds of not particularly ethical, not particularly honest people exist...right, Fresco?

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

How the hell would I know what other people do or do not know, Fresco. ?

Surely by the same method that you know anything, Frank, assuming of course that you do know anything !

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@fresco,

And while the committee is dealing with that one, find out which one of them posted...

Quote:

Gotta worry about the people who do not know..

...because that seems to be contradicting the quote above. !

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@fresco,

Fresco...you are being a jackass now....but to be honest with you, this is the first instance in over a decade that I see any real humanity to you.

So continue to be a jackass. It's an improvement.

1 Reply

Is Reality a Social Construction ?

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