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Is Reality a Social Construction ?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 10:49 pm
@vori1234,
Re: cicerone imposter (Post 3652463)
1.When we drive a car, we drive on the roads that we think best meets our wishes.

When computer drives a car, it drives on the roads that it thinks best meets its wishes.
If computer was programmed to get there as fast as possible you can call this his wish and it will use the fastest route. (sports car in a race)
If computer was programmed to get there using the slowest route
you can call this his wish and it will use the slowest route. (sports car in a race hacked by a rival driver)
But it's still programmed by some human to do so, and it cannot deviate from the program. A human driver can deviate at any time and at any way they wish on the way to any destination.


2. A computerized vehicle can only go in the direction that has been pre-programmed.
Human operated vehicle can only go in the direction that has been pre-programmed.
Wrong; a human can change their mind and deviate from their orginal plan.

3. When a human decides to go someplace, they have many options in arriving at their destination. They can take the shortest route, the longest route, the scenic route, or with any numbers of detours.

No he can't. Whatever decision that human makes at that moment was the only possible decision he could have made at that moment.
Wrong: humans can change their mind any time they wish - to continue on their journey, to stop and rest, to take a detour, or go back home - at random.

Complex process of deciding where to go that was going in his brain was governed by the laws of physics directing electric impulses between neurons. laws of physics define EXACTLY what will happen with any part of the universe in the next moment no metter if this is electrical impuls in your brain or yourself as a system.
Wrong: physics has nothing to do with the subjective choices humans make when driving a car or walking.

The process of deciding which route to take can be simply programmed into computer.
If there is no rain take the scenic route.
If you need to be at your destination in less then 10 minutes take the fast route.
If you have 30 minutes to get to your destination and you fuel level is lower then 10 galons deatour to the pump.
Yes, it must be pre-programmed into the computer. It cannot make any decision not pre-programmed, but humans can change plans at any point on the journey.

3. Yes, somebody had to "program" what the computer does.
Just like the nature programmed you what to do and gave you a subprogram which changes your program all the time.
"Nature" doesn't program humans. It's based on our genes, culture, and environment.

So behaviour of our NPC can also be changed over time by another subprogam. Then subprogam might at some ppoint change thos "1000 gold coins" into "10 silver coins", or it can add another if statement to that NPC furthermore changing its behaviour.
You lost me.

4.The "consequence or reward" is pre-programmed by some human. It does not decide on its own; the programmer programmed it that way.
Who's the programmer and the programmee! LOL

You can imagen that your brain has acctually two program. One that decides for you and the other that constatly is reprogramming the first one telling him what rules to use. This is like have program and programmer tide to each other and the programmer is constantly changing the program.
Show me some real life examples of this.

Mathematical Models of Neural Networks are oding the same thing. They are always equiped with so called Back propagation algorithm whose goal is to change/reprogram neurla network after each of its decisions. This allows NN to adapt, learn and change just like your brain does.
Mathematical models do not explain human behavior.

5. All the scenarios were established, and the response(s) already programmed.
Wrong: who established "all the scenarios?"
Not if you have another programm which constantly change NPCs behaviour which is what happens in brain.
You lost me again.

6. We're talking about behavior of humans and computers; not whether we have physical limitations.
Agreed; that's the reason it's not about physics.

Because of physical limitations/laws we have our choices limited to single one at any given moment.
Correct; I haven't been able to fly on my own yet.


7 . Yes, and they are all programmed by humans.
What is: "they are all programmed by humans."?
Mostly computer programmers; they're all humans, aren't they?
vori1234
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 07:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
Heh Smile
Those sentences which I gave beside each number were acctually what you said and then I treid to explain my view on it.
I better learn using red font like you do.

That little prgoram I made which defines NPC behaviour was just hes program at one perticular moment in time. That program doesn't have to be constant. There is another programm which runs paralele to that one. Goal of that other program is to change or add new if statements to NPC behaviour. this program could look like this:

If NPCs dog was killed add following if statement to his behaviour:
If you see a dog start crying.

If NPC is hit by truck add following if statement to his behaviour:
If you see a truck start shaking.

Both that NPC and you don't have fixed program from the day you were created/born. You both start with some simple program that gets more complex over time. That new complexitiy is not begin added/programmed by some person but by another program.
0 Replies
 
Jerry954878
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2012 12:54 am
@fresco,
Yes, "God" and "Exist" fall under such an abstract, but without the language we have all agreed on, we could not ask the questions and find relevant answers. If the language were not here, and the hierarchy not established we would probably all be much happier freely thinking alone in the forest, to be true to your own thoughts is to free them from the confines we are aware of, and accept the dim box of reality as it as so long as we have too.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2012 02:32 pm
@Merry Andrew,
Perceived reality is all we can relate with. Our egos and defense system won't allow us to take it further.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2012 07:21 pm
@Rickoshay75,
I suppose with all that what you really mean is that we have real perceptions going on...(that perceptions happen and are true !) Cool
ricab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 01:52 am
@fresco,
You will just end with a Cartesian em passe... unless you start to assume something or trust something...
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Mar, 2012 05:45 am
@ricab,
Without going back through the ten years of this thread, I would state that celebrated modern philosophers such as Rorty and Quine have argued that it is impossible to state any "given" in epistemology. We are left with the pragmatist's analysis that truth/reality is "what works" and is subject to contextual negotiation. Furthermore, I take Maturana's view that all "observation" necessarily involves "language" which implies that what we call "reality" is a linguistic construction and only arises when its status is disputed. It has no ontological status outside that social context. (Sorry if that is counter-intuitive, but it follows from Wittgenstein's adage "meaning is use", and the fact that in normal circumstances, as opposed to philosophically contrived ones, the concept of "reality" never arises unless it is disputed).
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 02:51 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

I suppose with all that what you really mean is that we have real perceptions going on...(that perceptions happen and are true !) Cool


Only true (real) to the person with the perception, but if his perception is conventional wisdom found in dictionaries and encyclopedias, he'll be in tune with the rest of the world.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 11:19 pm
@fresco,
Reality is what it is, only mental cases can't comprehend it.
0 Replies
 
NoSuchThing
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 07:24 pm
@fresco,
May be you should re-write this in klingonian so the category is refreshed a little bid.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2012 09:00 am
@NoSuchThing,
not yap wa' Hol !
NoSuchThing
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2012 06:01 pm
@fresco,
Hey, that's good. I see it now.
0 Replies
 
 

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