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Mediaguard KDF 55 ------Yea or Nay??

 
 
adaily
 
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 11:09 pm
I've learned a ton about water softeners from reading through threads. Thanks to all those who provide an opinion.

Does anyone have any specific experience with the Mediaguard KDF 55. I like the idea of having the filter in the softener, but was wondering if anyone could provide some real world experience with the product.

Thanks
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 13,012 • Replies: 15
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Gary Slusser
 
  0  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:09 am
As a dealer I do not suggest them to my prospective customer, or my customers. When it comes time, and that can be fairly soon, that you have to replace the 'filter' in the softener, you won't like it much. Or when it starts to reduce the flow through the softener. And they are expensive and not a good idea IMO.

Most people think they'd like one based on the marketing used to sell them but... millions of softeners work without one and have for 50 years before someone invented it. Commercial/industrial softeners would never have one. Dealers that like to increase the price of their sales love'em.
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Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 08:24 am
Re: Mediaguard KDF 55 ------Yea or Nay??
adaily wrote:
Does anyone have any specific experience with the Mediaguard KDF 55. I like the idea of having the filter in the softener, but was wondering if anyone could provide some real world experience with the product.


What water issues are you trying to solve?

I have some experience with MediaGuards.

Let me know what you want them to do.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
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adaily
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 02:57 pm
Mainly I'm just looking at chlorine reduction, but seems as if there are other benefits to the Mediaguard (Heavy metal removal etc.). I know I could go with a couple of carbon cartridges before the water softener, but I liked the idea of a single unit and the fact that the Mediaguard gets back washed. As Gary points out if I have to change it very often which is probably a big hassle, it may not be worth the trouble.

Thanks
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 05:26 pm
MediaGuard with KDF-55 is an excellent media for dechlorination. Of course it depends on the volume of water that goes through the unit, the concentration of chlorine that is being removed and what other contaminants may affect performance.

"Very often" is a relative term. There is not much reduction in flow rate albeit some, of course. It backwashes very effectively. Each of the four compartments (or six) has one pound of media in it.

Replacing it can be a chore although not impossible. Depending on the size of your softener and if you have a gravel bed, it is a bit of a headache. The tank needs a valve adapter to fit the MediaGuard.

What I would suggest is use a re-fillable prefilter cartridge and fill it 3/4 with the KDF. It will be an upflow cartridge so flow rate won't be an issue. It is easy to remove and re-fill. KDF will last many times longer than carbon but it is also more expensive.

Good luck,
Andy Christensen, CWS-II
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Gary Slusser
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 06:49 pm
Adaily, KDF is very heavy and will not be backwashed very well at the flow rate of a residential sized softener which is flow controlled to usually less than 3 gpm for a larger softener than most houses.

Putting it in a disposable filter cartridge housing in up flow mode is not a good idea IMO, it will cause pressure loss without being much worth.
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 06:59 pm
Gary,

You are mistaken.
It backwashes very well in the vessel that contains it. It lifts and reconstitutes itself everytime during the backwshing. Perhaps you don't have experience with it. I have tested these with a clear tank and the media lifts.

All that aside, I still beleive there are better methods of using KDF in water treament.

The refillable cartridge doesn't significantly reduce flow rate. I have a number in use now and there is no problem. My personal experience and monitoring as clearly revealed that. It reduced chlorine to undetectable levels.
Gary Slusser
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 08:09 pm
Adaily, actually many dealers that used it eventually quit after finding that over time it clumped and caused unacceptable pressure loss.
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 09:14 pm
Gary,

He is talking about the MediaGuard. A very different application. It doesn't clump as you suggest.

Anyway, no point to carry on if you have no experience with this.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2008 10:16 am
Andy CWS wrote:
Gary, He is talking about the MediaGuard. A very different application. It doesn't clump as you suggest.

Anyway, no point to carry on if you have no experience with this.

Yes I too am talking about the Media Guard.

Yes it clumps, that's because of the usually 1.2-3.0 gpm water flow during backwash of the softener for only 4-8 minutes. That is not sufficient to lift KDF and successfully backwash it.

I don't have to have sold the Media Guard, or used KDF, what I've done is to listen to many dealers over the last 10+ years that have, and because of their bad experiences, they say don't use it because of what I have mentioned. That makes a lot of sense to me since I looked into using KDF when it first came out many more years ago than you've been in this business as a only salesman.

If you disagree, look up and then post the suggested backwash flow rate on the spec sheet for whatever type of KDF you're using, or what comes in the Media guard.
0 Replies
 
adaily
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 10:51 pm
Thanks for the lively discussion. So I guess I'll provide a few details and maybe that will help with a more specific recommendation.

I'm moving into a new house with 4 bathrooms, one has a shower head with body sprays, the total flow rating for all the fixtures in that shower is about 12 gpm. I measured the flow rate at my mater bathtub, which I believe is the highest flow rate fixture in the house and it came in at about 18 gpm. I searched around for sizing recommendations and it seems as if a 64K softener is reasonable, given my measured hardness (flow rate is limiting in my case). I was for a chlorine reduction methodology that wouldn't significantly impede my flow. So what would you guys recommend.

Thanks for the responses!
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 11:50 am
KDF in the MediaGuard requires 1.1 gallons per minute per pound of media. So if your backwashing rate is 3 gallons per minute, then measure the media to represent that amount of flow rate. Divide that media total by four (or six in larger units) and place each in each of the canisters.

It will effectively backwash and clean itself. There other aspects of this media still exist whether positive or negative.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 05:44 pm
adaily wrote:
I'm moving into a new house with 4 bathrooms, one has a shower head with body sprays, the total flow rating for all the fixtures in that shower is about 12 gpm. I measured the flow rate at my mater bathtub, which I believe is the highest flow rate fixture in the house and it came in at about 18 gpm. I searched around for sizing recommendations and it seems as if a 64K softener is reasonable, given my measured hardness (flow rate is limiting in my case). I was for a chlorine reduction methodology that wouldn't significantly impede my flow. So what would you guys recommend. Thanks for the responses!

Based only on the number of bathrooms and type of fixtures, without knowing family numbers, ages and water quality, the continuous SFR gpm of a 2.0 cuft softener is too low for your house. There are two SFRs, continuous and peak, you want to know continuous.

I suggest removing chlorine on a POU basis; shower head filters and a 2 stage drinking water filter at the kitchen sink. You can buy a lot of them for the from $135 to $185 price of a Media Guard, and you can replace them very easily as opposed to a Media Guard; along with its high price to purchase the replacement volume.

And as we see from Andy's last post, the amount of KDF is limited by the backwash flow rate of the softener. Most softeners are undersized but... the backwash flow rate is usually 1.2-2.7 gpm. That means you get a very small amount of KDF for the price and hassle of replacing it when it needed to be replaced. And you have to live with the pressure loss and reduced flow until you search for the reason and remember the KDF in the softener....

It is never a good idea to add anything to a softener that won't last as long as the resin. That includes carbon. And it is not a good idea to prefilter a softener unless the water is visibly dirty or the control valve is a rotary disc type instead of a piston, seal and spacer design like Clack and Fleck. And resin will last a decade or more without protecting it from chlorine or buying a more chlorine tolerant type.
0 Replies
 
zaboo3
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 10:17 pm
@adaily,
Sorry just reading this, but can shed some light.
I had a new tank for softening, with a mediaguard (KDF55 Cartridge). Here's what happened next:
Started out great, but after a short while the water pressure started dropping off, got really poor. KDF cartridge was the problem. Here's how I fixed it:
I started over. Put the riser tube, new rock bed, 20lb of KDF, followed by coconut charcoal, then resin. My water pressure is like new.
But here is the kicker... When I opened the KDF cartridge to maybe use some of the stated "4lb of KDF", what I found was a lot of carbon, and very little KDF. So when I addressesd this issue with PROCAN up in Canada, they manufacture the KDF MEDIAGUARD, they would not reply.
So what I am telling you:
If you want the benefits of KDF, then put it right into the tank. remember, it is the heaviest of the 3 items I used. so, during regen. it all gets rinsed, and cleaned, then the KDF goes back to the bottom where it belongs. No more water pressure restrictions. the water is awesome with 20lb of KDF, no "****" is getting through!

hope this helps ... Fred [email protected]
0 Replies
 
zaboo3
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 10:23 pm
@Andy CWS,
Hey there Andy,
Have you had one of those MEDIAGUARD cartridges open for a closer exam?
I did after it greatly reduced my water pressure, oh sure it did take a little time. There was maybe 5 percent KDF to 95% Carbon. Sure that will knock down chlorine, but it not really a true KDF product I purchased for 149$. I would not reccomend that product to anyone, and when I approached the manufacturer, they refused to answer me.

I am sure it's a money maker, but the product sucks!
Fred
0 Replies
 
danielfish
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 01:02 pm
@adaily,
Can the KDM affectivaly remove Flouride from the water.
0 Replies
 
 

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