military service for everyone?

I believe mandatory military service is a great idea. It teaches discipline, promotes teamwork, and you're serving your country. I'm in the army (canadian) and love it, I've never worked harder in my life and never have enjoyed working so much. It's not slavery because you're getting paid to do it, it's not like they're mistreating you or anything, they're teaching you to work under stressful conditions and to be able to perform effectively. After you've finished your mandatory service you'll be more effective , efficient, and confident at any other job you choose to take. The reason being is that you've already been through the toughest thing there is and you've also developed good working habits. For example, refugess, a lot of them work really hard and in the end prosper because of their hard labour. The reason they work hard is because they started out with nothing and had a hard life to begin with. So in comparison to completing mandatory military service, you've just went through the hardest part of your life, everything now should come a lot easier.

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being ex-army i have to agree with the self discipline it leaves you with throughout your life, as for mandatory i would probably say no, but instead of sending young kid criminals too kiddie prison put them in the army for 5 years. Crime rates would soon be dropping, everyone would be happier, and the little undisciplined criminals would learn a mighty fine lesson and best of all discipline and respect. Downside is you may end up highly training your criminal gangs

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don't you think five years are too long?

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helmi15 wrote:

don't you think five years are too long?

it could always be as per crime

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I always hate to do this but.... bookmark.

I want to read through this when I'm a bit better rested. I think there is a lot to be said for maditory service whether it be in the active military or in a another role that supports the country -- the conscientious objector type thing. I'm going to sleep on this.

Meanwhile.... those that seem to think that a soldier's death is overlooked by anyone other than their family would do well to read: http://www.esquire.com/features/things-that-carried-him.

Have your tissues handy.

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Sorry. That link is a little goofy. Scroll down to almost the bottom of the page and click on the photo of the soldier.

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Though it is a good idea to use mandatory military service to dsicipline criminals, I don't think it should be used as punishment. Being in the military is something you should take pride in doing and should not be used as a means of punishment.

If you're going to punish criminals, they should treat them as they do in the army but not indoct them into it.

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but you could have punishment regiments

crayon851 wrote:

Though it is a good idea to use mandatory military service to dsicipline criminals, I don't think it should be used as punishment. Being in the military is something you should take pride in doing and should not be used as a means of punishment.

If you're going to punish criminals, they should treat them as they do in the army but not indoct them into it.

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Foofie wrote:

A universal draft would have many benefits to the U.S.:

1- It would induce some young people to join another branch of the military (Air Force/Navy), and then those branches would have a greater pool of recruits. Some recruits do make a career of the military. The respective service would then be able to select the best from this larger pool.

2- Some citizens of the United States, as living an entire life as civilians, can best identify with only their respective region and regional culture. A universal draft would help make for an American identity.

3- It would likely end immigration of those immigrants that are just here for the "good times." If one's children had to serve in the military, then immigrants would likely come here with the intention of assimilating.

4- It would be a force for peace in the world, since enemies of the U.S. can presently think the country's military can be spread too thin, with multiple theaters of operations, to be effective. With a universal draft this would not be a potential tactic. It would also prevent any country from using nuclear weapons, since the U.S. can than occupy that country with a military that had enough boots on the ground, so to speak. The mutually assured destruction paradigm of the Cold War probably needs to be replaced today with a military large enough to make any use of nuclear weapons a waste, since the country would know it would be occupied by a military that had enough soldiers to effectively end that regime.

but then people who absolutely refused to join, and refuse prison and the whole court system as well will likely end up moving or becoming violent to avoid jail. then u have a whole new problem.

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OGIONIK wrote:

Foofie wrote:
A universal draft would have many benefits to the U.S.:

1- It would induce some young people to join another branch of the military (Air Force/Navy), and then those branches would have a greater pool of recruits. Some recruits do make a career of the military. The respective service would then be able to select the best from this larger pool.

2- Some citizens of the United States, as living an entire life as civilians, can best identify with only their respective region and regional culture. A universal draft would help make for an American identity.

3- It would likely end immigration of those immigrants that are just here for the "good times." If one's children had to serve in the military, then immigrants would likely come here with the intention of assimilating.

4- It would be a force for peace in the world, since enemies of the U.S. can presently think the country's military can be spread too thin, with multiple theaters of operations, to be effective. With a universal draft this would not be a potential tactic. It would also prevent any country from using nuclear weapons, since the U.S. can than occupy that country with a military that had enough boots on the ground, so to speak. The mutually assured destruction paradigm of the Cold War probably needs to be replaced today with a military large enough to make any use of nuclear weapons a waste, since the country would know it would be occupied by a military that had enough soldiers to effectively end that regime.

but then people who absolutely refused to join, and refuse prison and the whole court system as well will likely end up moving or becoming violent to avoid jail. then u have a whole new problem.

I was not thinking of the military as an option, instead of jail. That is not what I'm talking about; just a military draft like Israel. Everyone, men and women of a certain age.

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I think it's horse **** to expect people to serve involuntarily.

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yeah but jail is the option if you refuse the draft.

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OGIONIK wrote:

yeah but jail is the option if you refuse the draft.

So?

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edgarblythe wrote:

OGIONIK wrote:
yeah but jail is the option if you refuse the draft.

So?

The Army was only one option for draft age males. Many joined the Air Force or Navy to fulfill their military obligation.

In my own opinion, some of those that made efforts to avoid the draft after college (college gave young men a deferment, while in college) were more involved with not having a detour around their personal plans, since the Army was only one route to fulfilling one's military obligation.

While initial reaction to a resumption of the draft would likely be less than enthusiastic by many males of draftable age, with time it would just be another phase of young manhood, similar to Elvis going into the Army.

And, in some people's opinion, service to one's country is just part of the social contract - it is not an imposition on anyone, it is a debt to be paid to one's country.

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One does not owe involuntary servitude, except where slavery is allowed. If the government wisely chose between military action and other ways to achieve its means, you would have far less draft dodgers. There have always been draft dodgers or the equivelant in our history. I don't know a great deal about the ones before the Vietnam debacle, but that disgrace made draft dodging a thing to be proud of.

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edgarblythe wrote:

One does not owe involuntary servitude, except where slavery is allowed. If the government wisely chose between military action and other ways to achieve its means, you would have far less draft dodgers. There have always been draft dodgers or the equivelant in our history. I don't know a great deal about the ones before the Vietnam debacle, but that disgrace made draft dodging a thing to be proud of.

The military draft is not involuntary servitude. One might say involuntary military service for those that would prefer not to serve. But not involuntary servitude, since one is not serving a master, one is serving one's own country and people, including one's family.

I believe some people (you need not include yourself) do think of the military as servitude, since in the military one is supposed to obey a direct order from an officer, and a request from a non-commissioned officer, if within one's chain of command, and only a lawful order. That is not servitude, since one also obeys orders at a civilian job too. The purpose of the military is just different than many a civilian job; however, some civilian jobs do function in a military style of organization, and those jobs are not considered servitude.

Also, if you looked around the world, you might find there are quite a few countries that still have a draft. You could look at Israel, where both genders are draftable with certain exceptions for females.

I have no idea if the draft would ever be resumed. I think it bothers many a young male to think it may be resumed. I still believe that is because for a number of decades the draft has been halted, and two generations of males have not had that as a rite of passage. In my opinion, your calling it "servitude" is an opinion I never heard back in its day.

However, for those that want to equate a military draft with servitude, I believe that might reflect a preference not to accept the reality that if a draft becomes part of the social contract to be a U.S. citizen (likely just males), then calling it servitude implies one has the right to pick and choose how one fulfills one's social contract. Wrong. One either fulfills the social contract in force, or one can always choose to find another country to live under its social contract. In effect, being born in the U.S. does not give one the right to define the social contract with one's government. Sort of like taxes one has to pay. Some years the tax rate is higher than other years.

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I just have to address this notion of sending people to the military instead of prison.

ARE YOU CRAZY!?

You don't trust this guy with your wallet but you expect my brother (or her husband or his mother or whatever) to trust them with their life?

Are you serious?

Please.

Criminals belong in jail, not the military.

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Foofie wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
OGIONIK wrote:
yeah but jail is the option if you refuse the draft.

So?

The Army was only one option for draft age males. Many joined the Air Force or Navy to fulfill their military obligation.

In my own opinion, some of those that made efforts to avoid the draft after college (college gave young men a deferment, while in college) were more involved with not having a detour around their personal plans, since the Army was only one route to fulfilling one's military obligation.

While initial reaction to a resumption of the draft would likely be less than enthusiastic by many males of draftable age, with time it would just be another phase of young manhood, similar to Elvis going into the Army.

And, in some people's opinion, service to one's country is just part of the social contract - it is not an imposition on anyone, it is a debt to be paid to one's country.

this pos country owes me.

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Military service does not boil down to senseless violence and killing. It of a variety of jobs most of which better prepare young adults for with job skills that directly transfer to civilian life. Unfortunately there is not an awareness of this by civilian employers.

I personally served for 8 years in the Army. Made rank very quickly and excelled at everything I did. I was accountable for millions of dollars of equipment and the day to day activities of hundreds of soldiers. Upon leaving the Army I doubt I could have got a job managing a photo hut or burger joint. I was stereo typed by society and started right where I left off before joining the service. 8 years of my life and nothing to show for it but a few medals. Perhaps military training should be a right of passage like boy scouts, School K-12, College, and youth soccer. Then we would have young adults entering the work force and college with skills and knowledge that are a valuable asset to all.

I think the civilian world could use a crash course in
What the military is?
What it fights for?
Who it fights for?
And what is happening in this world? You can't learn about the global issues that transpire daily by watching the evening news or reading a newspaper. About all you get is celebrity gossip. Our nation needs to take a walk outside and realize that our country shouldn't be taken for granted. Our freedom is not free. We are indeed lucky to have it so good.

If our political leaders had to make the decisions to send their own sons and daughters to war I think they would often reconsider.