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Fleck 5600SE Ecominder, Fleck 7000SE or Ecowater System?

Forums: Water Softening, Home Improvement, Rainsoft, Home, Ecowater
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Hello,

I am trying to find out which system I should buy for us. I have looked at the Fleck systems which run about $699 (with the SST-60 resin and the KFD-55 media guard) and last night also got introduced to the Ecowater system for $2990. I can't see any major differences in the system other than the cost, the warranty and maybe the size of the system. Is there anyone here who has experience with these and has some advice?

Thanks

Susanne

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What is the purpose of the KDF-55? What did the sales rep state it was for?

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

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Re: Fleck 5600SE Ecominder, Fleck 7000SE or Ecowater System?

SusiQ wrote:

Hello,

I am trying to find out which system I should buy for us. I have looked at the Fleck systems which run about $699 (with the SST-60 resin and the KFD-55 media guard) and last night also got introduced to the Ecowater system for $2990. I can't see any major differences in the system other than the cost, the warranty and maybe the size of the system. Is there anyone here who has experience with these and has some advice?

Thanks

Susanne

Hello Susanne! Welcome to A2K Cool

Cool

Questions:
How hard is your water? Does it have any Iron or Chlorine? What is the Ph?
I don't care for the Fleck 5600 and the 7000SE reminds me of the dainty WS-1.
If you get a system with a Fleck valve, get one with a 2510 SE control valve.
What model EcoWater system are you looking at?

0 Replies

Here's what it states on the website:

Mediaguard KDF 55 is for city water and removes chlorine, heavy metals from the water, bacteria static. Gives you good tasting water thru out the whole house. No maintenance needed on the mediaguard system.

Mediaguard is mounted between the control valve and the tank, exhibiting consistently superior KDF Process Media as pretreatment media to improve the performance and economy of your water softener system.

Mediaguard with KDF 55 medium is truly an economic pretreatment unit which is able to turn your water softener into a high performance water purification system by reducing or removing chlorine, heavy metals, and inhibits bacteria growth from water without adding chemicals. KDF 55 ELIMINATED THE NEED FOR A CARBON FILTER.

KDF 55 and KDF 85 Process Media can remove up to 99% of water-soluble lead, mercury, nickel, chromium, and other dissolved metals, Chlorine and Hydrogen Sulfide. All KDF Process Media forms are effective in controlling the buildup of bacteria, algae, fungi and scale, making them ideal for use in GAC beds, ion exchange resins, carbon block filters and inline carbon filters. Wherever KDF Media are used, they can eliminate the need for costly, and sometimes harmful, chemical treatments.

Thanks
Susanne

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KDF is nothing new, it's been available for years.

Did anyone tell you why they think you need KDF?

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Re: Fleck 5600SE Ecominder, Fleck 7000SE or Ecowater System?

H2O_MAN wrote:

SusiQ wrote:
Hello,

I am trying to find out which system I should buy for us. I have looked at the Fleck systems which run about $699 (with the SST-60 resin and the KFD-55 media guard) and last night also got introduced to the Ecowater system for $2990. I can't see any major differences in the system other than the cost, the warranty and maybe the size of the system. Is there anyone here who has experience with these and has some advice?

Thanks

Susanne

Hello Susanne! Welcome to A2K

Questions:
How hard is your water? Does it have any Iron or Chlorine? What is the Ph?
I don't care for the Fleck 5600 and the 7000SE reminds me of the dainty WS-1.
If you get a system with a Fleck valve, get one with a 2510 SE control valve.
What model EcoWater system are you looking at?

Hello H2O_man,

Hardness of our water is 7GPM(it's City Water) and there is no Iron, but Chlorine is at 1.2.
The Ecowater system is the ECR3500.

thanks
Susanne

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I just checked the price for the 2510 SE, it's $808 which is still ok.
So now it's the Fleck 2510SE or the Ecowater

Thanks
Susanne

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My recommendation: Negotiate for the ERR 3500 @ the same price or less and be happy.

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My husband would install the system (he's a mechanical engineer, so installing is not a problem and if there are fixes later on) and we would get a $200 - $250 discount, but it's still around $2500 and they are not very willing to negotiate, since it's their "top of the line" product.
What are the most important reasons that you are recommending the ERR3500 over the Fleck2510SE?

Thanks
Susanne

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SusiQ wrote:

What are the most important reasons that you are recommending the ERR3500 over the Fleck2510SE?

Thanks
Susanne

The Fleck 2510 SE is just the control valve, the tank and other items are made by another company and have a maximum warranty of 5 years.
I sell the 2510 SE and my clients are very happy with it, but the EcoWater system in designed, produced and assembled in house.
They make about 98% of the items used to make the entire system. Quality control is outstanding and they have an extra long warranty.
The EcoWater softener has a computer that adjust to your habits and is the most efficient user of salt and water during regeneration in the industry.

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The MediaGuard is a long slender tube that fits over the riser tube and attaches to the valve with a special adapter. There are four canisters each with a flow though method where both service and backwashing fluids--and elements involved in the softening process--pass.

Each canister holds one pound of KDF. It will convert chlorine to an odorless and 'harmless' element. The media will eventually need to be replaced. Removing these can be difficult and seperating the canisters can be very difficult and often break in the process. They interlock very tightly and are made of qa brittle plastic.

Very often the whole riser tube needs to be removed as well.

We used them on a couple of field tests. The KDF worked effectively for varying periods of time from 6 months to about 18 on sulfur but work a litle longer on chlorine, depending on the ppm count and volume of water used.

Time, parts, and media involved in replacements would have cost our customers around $400 to $480. KDF is very expensive and even more expensive when purcahsed in small amounts. Most customers thought that was prohibitive so we stopped experiementing.

Most on-line sales of these products don't care (or even mention) future maintenance costs. So they are happy to make claims and cash your check. If you buy from any local guy, get a five-year minimum warranty on the KDF for both parts and labor.

Again KDF is very effective (especailly for shower filters) but special considerations must be made with this unique media.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

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Re: Fleck 5600SE Ecominder, Fleck 7000SE or Ecowater System?

SusiQ wrote:

,

Hardness of our water is 7GPM(it's City Water) and there is no Iron, but

wow my city water is 24..i'm jealous

for those in the know, what is the hardness of the soft water that comes out of our softeners? or does it just reduce hardness by X %?

0 Replies

SuziQ, the warranty on industry standard tanks is not 5 years, it is 10 years; both the resin/mineral tank and brine tank.

The 2510, like many of the Fleck controls, is very difficult to impossible to rebuild without the special control valve model specific Fleck tools used to replace the seals and spacers the piston runs in.

A much better choice is the Clack WS-1 control valve. It has many fewer parts (only 5) and no contact switches with their wires and plugs, one inexpensive motor instead of two very expensive motors, and only 3 small gears. And no Teflon coatings to wear off the piston and brine valve. The same piston seal and spacer design in the Clack WS-1 does not have the separate brine valve to bind and leak when th Teflon wears off. The Clack WS-1 piston is screwed in and out instead of pushed and pulled with sideway wear forces to cause end cap o-ring leaks, the piston stem Teflon wear leaks and the brine valve leaks as the Fleck valves frequently do.

Anyone with the desire and a pair of channel lock type pliers can rebuild a Clack WS-1 totally and have their water back on in 30 minutes. And if the softener is sized and set up correctly, you get the same salt efficiency of any other softener but... like the Ecowater softener with the lowest salt use, they regenerate many more times than once every 8 days on average. That uses substantially more water.

You can check my web site sizing page to learn about sizing a softener correctly and salt efficiency.

You don't want a Media Guard.

0 Replies

Gary Slusser wrote:

The 2510, like many of the Fleck controls, is very difficult to impossible to rebuild without the special
control valve model specific Fleck tools used to replace the seals and spacers the piston runs in.

Unlike Clack, the Fleck 2510 SE rarely needs service. Any experienced H2O professional can easily service
the 2510 with a screw driver and his/her bare hands. It's only difficult to impossible for one individual.

When asked, distributors will tell you that the Clack WS-1 is no better than the metered Fleck 2510SE.
The WS-1 has higher published flow rates and very flexible programing, but these so called advantages
apply to less than 1.0% of all homeowner installations in the USA.
Also, service and repair parts for Fleck are readily available - this is not the case with Clack.

Gary Slusser wrote:

if the softener is sized and set up correctly, you get the same salt efficiency of any other softener but... like the Ecowater softener with the lowest salt use, they regenerate many more times than once every 8 days on average. That uses substantially more water.

That's not true! ~ You don't have a clue!
_________________
If you pay <$700 including UPS delivery for your H2O system - you're not getting professional installation or service.
Caveat Emptor: You get what you pay for - You don't get what you don't pay for.

0 Replies

Gary Slusser wrote:

The 2510, like many of the Fleck controls, is very difficult to impossible to rebuild without the special
control valve model specific Fleck tools used to replace the seals and spacers the piston runs in.

H2O_MAN wrote:

Unlike Clack, the Fleck 2510 SE rarely needs service. Any experienced H2O professional can easily service
the 2510 with a screw driver and his/her bare hands. It's only difficult to impossible for one individual.

Fleck breaks more often than Clack but you must have missed where she said they want to install it themselves. I'll bet they want to fix it themselves too instead of calling a local dealer out and paying a service call.

Oh, BTW, I forgot to mention that the Clack WS-1 has VARIABLE RESERVE, SOFT WATER BRINE REFILL, PRE or POST refill AND UPFLOW or DOWNFLOW BRINING. that the Fleck 5600 or 2510 DOES NOT HAVE in any of their three versions.

H2O_MAN wrote:

When asked, distributors will tell you that the Clack WS-1 is no better than the metered Fleck 2510SE.
The WS-1 has higher published flow rates and very flexible programing, but these so called advantages
apply to less than 1.0% of all homeowner installations in the USA.
Also, service and repair parts for Fleck are readily available - this is not the case with Clack.

If you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't have to ask distributors/suppliers.... The SFR of the control tells dealers that know what they are doing, what size tank the control can be used on for either a softener or filter. That is from a 6" x 18" tank to a 21" x 65" tank for either a filter or softener. The volume and type of resin and the salt dose lbs used controls/dictates the salt efficiency; nothing else. Buy a book on softeners! Go to some schooling! You don't even sound as if you know what you're talking about. Here, I'll show you what I mean... that 1%, describe a house that would need the "very flexible programming advantages".

You do the same programming in a Fleck, it just is harder and takes longer but, again, describe a house in that 1% as to why it would need or could use those "advantages" of the Clack programming. And how do you know that SuziQ doesn't have that type house?

Gary Slusser wrote:

if the softener is sized and set up correctly, you get the same salt efficiency of any other softener but... like the Ecowater softener with the lowest salt use, they regenerate many more times than once every 8 days on average. That uses substantially more water.

H2O_MAN wrote:

That's not true! ~ You don't have a clue!

Oh but YES IT IS true! With the same volume resin, I can get the same K grains/lb salt efficiency. So prove your claim by explaining where I'm wrong with facts, no more of your 'opinions' only. Give me the lbs of salt per regeneration and the frequency of regenerations.

You can check out what I said at any resin manufacturer's web site, just look up the spec sheet of the resin you are using and follow the graph with the salt lbs you want to use per cubic foot of the resin.

1 Reply

If you were an H2O professional you would admit the following and stop spreading lies.

The Clack WS-1 is no better than the metered Fleck 2510SE.
The WS-1 has higher published flow rates and very flexible programing, but these
so called advantages apply to less than 1.0% of all homeowner installations in the USA.
Also, service and repair parts for Fleck are readily available - this is not the case with Clack.

0 Replies

Gary

I believe you have been warned not to promote your personal web site where you sell water treatment equipment to on-line customers on this and other web site forums.

I have reported this violation to the moderators.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

0 Replies

Andy CWS wrote:

Gary

I believe you have been warned not to promote your personal web site where you sell water treatment equipment to on-line customers on this and other web site forums.

I have reported this violation to the moderators.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

I wouldn't expect anything less from you Andy but I don't know that saying "You can check my web site sizing page to learn about sizing a softener correctly and salt efficiency." is promoting my web site. And no I have not been warned about that. Actually Jespah has said otherwise, she's Admin here.

You do realize that SuziQ, or anyone else, can visit my web site when there is a forum provided WWW button below the post of those of us here that have a web site right? They can also view the persons Profile and see the URL to a site and then click on it to take themselves to the web site. I suppose you consider that "promoting" too.

I'm glad to see you finally admit publicly what you have been doing to me privately. I'll report your post for a moderator to look into that.

BTW, did you bother to read what Jespah had to say about business folks posting here awhile ago?

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SusiQ, you asked about the Fleck 7000. It is a 1.25" control valve. Most houses do not need a 1.25" valve. It has been n the market since Feb 1 2005. It was said that it did not need any special Fleck tools. I started selling it then and stopped selling it in early 2006 due to problems with it and the water use with its variable brining feature. On the same size softener as a valve without the variable brining sized and set up to regeneration once every 8 days, it will use much more water. That is a hidden operational expense for city water users and, there won't be much if any salt savings. At that time I had sold some 300+/- Clack WS-1 valves and I had more problems with only 25 7000s than I had with 300+/- Clacks so I quit suggesting and selling the 7000. They came out with a special tool too, I don't know what it is or what it is for.
As of two days ago, I had sold 947 Clack WS-1 controls and I've sold 3 more since then and I have had only 21 problems. I sold Fleck 5600 and 2500 and 2510 and 9000/9100s since 1987 and I would have expected many more problems than 21 in 950 sales.

The 7000 is not all that easy to work on either, although it is much easier than a 2510 or 5600. It is somewhat difficult to take apart and put back together for someone not familiar with it or actually reading the instructions as they do it.

I see on another forum that you asked about a Fleck 9000 alternating twin tank. The top piston in the 9000 and 9100 requires the 5600 special tools to replace the seals and spacers. The vast majority of homes do not have a need for a twin tank because they have no water use, other than possibly flushing a toilet, during the middle of the night when a regular softener regenerates. If you decide on a twin tank model, the 9100 is a better choice than the brass 9000. Brass corrodes and Noryl plastic does not. Also, plastic does not add anything to the water as metals can.

0 Replies

Thanks Gary for so much input from your side.
I ordered our water system yesterday. I did go with the 2510SE after my husband looked at the manual and instructions. He said if he has to do work on it, he can do it and it we will be able to order pretty much all the parts for it. The 7000SE looked a bit too "electronic" to him and I wasn't able to find the parts for it online.
Anyways we also did not go with the KDF media guard and added a Carbon pre-filter (GAC filter) to get rid of the Chlorine before it enters into the system.
I will make another water test tonight without the system and next week when the system is installed to see what the difference is.

Thanks
Susanne

0 Replies

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