OUTRAGE OVER WHALING ... #2 <cont>

@msolga,

I see it as part and parcel of this issue, MsOlga. I see the attempt to keep the issue out as an attempt to try to heap up the abuse pile upon Japan while not acknowledging the sins of the very "people" who are pointing the fingers.

Duplicity is duplicity.

Regardless, the issue is pretty much over. cuddly ain't gonna work. After it was pointed up time and again, Robert summed it all up pretty good here,

Post: # 3,918,285

http://able2know.org/topic/141217-4#post-3918285

I'll pass on starting the thread on overfishing. The usual suspects are all there, plus some new ones, of course.

1 Reply

@msolga,

Quote:

The Opposition's environment spokesman, Greg Hunt, says the Government has broken its election promise to stop whaling.

"Mr Garrett's proposal is a white flag which gives a green light to Japan to continue slaughtering whales in our waters for the next five years, and to continue slaughtering whales infinitely," he said.

Please stop with the lies, already.

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@msolga,

Ah, I think I've got my head around this now. The original proposal I posted was from an IWC working party, of which Australia was a member. Personally I had worrying reservations with it, as (to me) it seemed to concede far too much with too little gain. Not that much different to the conservation/animal welfare groups responses I've come across.

I am much happier with this new Australian government proposal to the IWC & glad they rejected the other one. Ditto the conservation groups & the many Australians who support whale conservation, too, I'd imagine.

The proposal suggests phasing out whaling over "a reasonable period of time".

Closure of the "scientific research loophole"

An end to whale sanctuaries.

While this (to me) is a definite improvement on the original (IWC working party) proposal, I really want much more detail than is currently available to be certain. As I find out more, I'll post the information here.

While conservation groups appear to have heaved a sigh of relief at this new proposal, the Australian Liberal (conservative) Party considers it a sell-out. Interestingly, as I've mentioned here many times, the Libs were far more pro-active on the whaling issue than this Labor government has ever been.

It will be very interesting to see what happens from here. (Behind the scene "diplomacy" between Australia & Japan, as has been hinted at?)
In the meantime, I suspect that if anything resembling a real sell-out should occur, there will be a backlash from the Greens, the Liberal Party, conservation & welfare groups, say nothing of the many ordinary Australians who support whale conservation. I suspect that Kevin Rudd (Oz pm) would be well aware of this and will be treading very cautiously on this issue in the lead -up to the election at the end of this year.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

I'll pass on starting the thread on overfishing.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, JTT.

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@msolga,

I think we can look at the gradual "phase-out" as nations continue to see a decline in interest in whale meat, since there is no longer any other use to which whale parts can be put.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

There are many cultures who take whales and they don't deserve these unfair aspersions

Actually there are a FEW nations that take whales. The Canadian whaling is the Innuit , as is whaling in US. (Its actually recognized as an aboriginal right in our CFR's). Other nations have drastically cut it back and i ceased whaling entirely. Several dishes that used to be popular in Norway are almost unmarketable now.(Perhaps its grassroot reactions by the public)
Really, only Japan ha determined to harvest Minke whales at numbers approaching 1000 whales a year.

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@farmerman,

Yes, I believe that's the way things will go, too, over time.
I think that's what you mean?

In terms of the new Oz government resolution, I was wondering if it it could mean whaling phased out over specific time frame.

Minus the actual details, I'm a bit concerned about the notion removing the protection of the whale sanctuaries while at the same time allowing (some sort of limited?) whaling to to continue at the same time.

A limited catch allowed to the whalers, with the IWC monitoring of actual numbers "harvested", minus the "scientific" loophole.

Just thinking out loud here.

Has does this look to you (assuming my interpretation is correct) , compared to what we have now?

1 Reply

@msolga,

well the assumption of the pro whale group is that 1000Minkes a year is sustainable. This is just based upon a feeling of comfort provided by long division. I dont hold any stock in the "sustainability assertion" until its been provided and predicted.

Ill start a fishing or Overfishing thread , its relevant although not directly applicable

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

well the assumption of the pro whale group is that 1000Minkes a year is sustainable. This is just based upon a feeling of comfort provided by long division. I dont hold any stock in the "sustainability assertion" until its been provided and predicted.

Yeah. I know ...

Can of worms, this, isn't it? Neutral

I think I was so unhappy with the original IWC working group proposal, that I've been grasping at straws. Sigh.

Quote:

Ill start a fishing or Overfishing thread , its relevant although not directly applicable

Good man!

Wanna know something? I was actually thinking of doing the same, a little earlier tonight.

I think I started to feel kinda sorry for JTT. Really.

1 Reply

@msolga,

Quote:

I think I started to feel kinda sorry for JTT. Really.

I appreciate the sentiment, MsOlga. Everything points to you being a kind and generous person.

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@JTT,

the thread is about the "ecology of extinction" wrt seafood stocks

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Could you please try to express yourself in a clearer manner, Farmer. I don't know what you're getting at. [No disdain whatsoever intended]

1 Reply

@JTT,

Thank you, JTT. Very kind of you.

And now, as there appears to be a bit of lull in whaling "issues" for the moment, let's enjoy the peace & quiet while it lasts! Smile

1 Reply

@msolga,

It takes no kindness to tell the truth, MsO, but I'm happy it gave you a measure of happy.

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Update on the latest on the IWC developments.
A preliminary meeting in the US, prior to the next full IWC meeting in a little under 4 months time. To discus the recently released IWC resolution, plus the later resolution from Australia.:

Quote:

Australia, Japan meet at whaling talks
By North America correspondent Lisa Millar/ABC NEWS online
Posted 7 hours 51 minutes ago

Key nations in the whaling debate are meeting in the United States to discuss a compromise deal over the divisive issue.

Delegates meeting near Saint Petersburg in Florida are considering a proposal put forward by the International Whaling Commission (IWC) to allow Japan, Iceland and Norway to commercially hunt whales.

The proposal would include strict monitoring and reductions in the number of whales killed over the next 10 years.

Australia is trying to stop Japanese whaling in the Antarctic and has put forward its own proposal.

The meeting is closed to the media but lobby groups are allowed to observe. They say the atmosphere is cordial.

This is a preliminary session ahead of the full meeting of the IWC in Morocco in June.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/03/2835234.htm

2 Replies

@JTT,

Quote:

Could you please try to express yourself in a clearer manner, Farmer. I don't know what you're getting at.

Could you be more specific? I dont want to have to repeat all my posts>

0 Replies

@msolga,

Weve predicted this from early on. A gradual reduction of whaling , Norway is close to having almost shut down its own whaling .

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@msolga,

Another update, following the "behind closed doors" meeting in the US, prior to the IWC conference in Morocco in June. The view from the Australian government, which is proposing the alternative proposal.:

Quote:

Garrett rules out return to commercial whaling
By environment reporter Sarah Clarke/ABC NEWS online
Posted 2 hours 26 minutes ago

Federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett has ruled out backing a compromise deal which could see a 24-year ban on commercial whaling overturned.

The United States, New Zealand and Germany have indicated they may support a compromise which sees Japan reduce its quota under its scientific research program in return for a return to small-scale commercial whaling.

Mr Garrett says Australia does not support the compromise.

"It hasn't come to an agreement ... but we will maintain our strong position in the ongoing discussions," Mr Garrett said.

Australia wants Japan to phase out its scientific cull over five years, but rejects overturning the ban on commercial hunting.

The issue will come to a head at the next IWC meeting to be held in Morocco in June.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/05/2837746.htm?site=news

1 Reply

@msolga,

Sounds like the US is pussying out a bit. US proposal asked for a smaller catch but phasing out over 10 years

2 Replies

@farmerman,

I'm wondering if this has any connection to our long-running dispute with Canada concerning what exactly constitutes Canadian terrritorial waters: they (reasonably enough) think bodies of water separating their various islands belong to them. The US Navy - George OB would know why - believes otherwise and every so often sends a destroyer to sail through all the straits of the fabled "Northern passage" from the Atlantic to the Pacific in order to prove this point. It didn't matter too much as long as everything was frozen solid, but now the ice vanishes for longer and longer periods. Doesn't make sense to me - wouldn't it be better to stop arguing and leave Canada in peace? If US ships have right of "innocent passage" then so do Chinese, Russian, etc. In a related development, Mrs Clinton has just infuriated the Brits by telling Argentina to start negotiations about the Falkland Islands - fallout continuing from that one. Australia's claim to policing vast tracts of the South Pacific (including the whale sanctuaries) may be legally related to the above - not sure but would like to find out.

3 Replies

OUTRAGE OVER WHALING ... #2 <cont>

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