IWC, Whaling & Japan. Is whaling illegal? Is whaling wrong?

If it is illegal, then why isn't there any legal action against it? Where is the court of law that would support such a verdict? Why just hot air about it each time an Australian president needs to be elected? The most you'll ever see about this is a dog and pony show from Australia to appease their domestic audience, but for something purportedly illegal a court of law actually saying so, as opposed to activists saying so would be a useful first step in actually establishing the whole "illegal" precedent. And there is a reason you don't see this alleged "crime" punished, and that is because it simply is not a crime.

doesn't require anyone else to take it seriously.

Please try to be consoistent and not start or embed a "factoidal premise" within your posts. Saying that whaling is sustainable now and then moving on to your other points (or bringit it up in summary) is NOT what IWC says officially.

Whatever hapened to "we hold these truths to be self-evident"?
Id like to see a case brought up under NATURAL LAW.

AS Ive seen, the focus of your and RG's argument is that Minke whaling of the SOuthern SUbspecies IS sustainable.

You have no compelling evidence other than some hired shills for IWC and then , on the obverse, we have IWC calling for "real population determination" of Minkes and other species to scientifically determine what they can absorb as to killing.

It won't satisfy the really hard core anti-whaling people, (of whom I am, very reluctantly, not one) but I guess I see it as a way of stepping down the level of conflict between at least the governments involved, and potentially being a face-saving way for everyone to calm down a bit.

I just don't see a lot of good in the current discourse.

Ultimately, unless fish stocks plummet very drastically, I doubt that whaling has much of a future. (Assuming baleen whales survived such a collapse, since they feed on tiny organisms?) I don't think it can be remotely economic for the Japanese, and they don't seem to actually eat that much of it. I don't know if the economics are better for the other whaling nations?

I suppose I am hoping that whaling countries might just slowly move away from whaling, as I really do not think anti-whaling sentiment is going to go away, and I think, historically speaking, that things gradually tend to change when there is a lot of feeling for said change.

I hope it goes that way for the pigs, too!

I don't know why you say so confidently that pigs are MORE intelligent than all whales. I'm interested in your data re that. I am not saying that you're wrong, I would just be very surprised if enough similar testing had been done to back that up.

Despite ambitious claims, evidence of unusually high human-like intelligence among cetaceans is patchy, partly because the cost and difficulty of carrying out research with marine mammals mean that experiments frequently suffer from small sample sizes and inadequate controls and replication.

I know Sea Shepherd and Greenpeace will not stop opposing whaling using whatever tactics they decide to use, so I know an IWC compromise won't change that aspect.

Probably no higher than anti-koala and kangaroo culling is in Japan, and likely lower.

I doubt it's anything like as universal a concern as you seem to think it is., though I could be wrong. It certainly never comes up in conversation for me ANYWHERE but here. But, I haven't looked at a poll or anything. Even if I had, and it was strongly anti-whaling, there'd be a lot of folk, I suspect, who would have a vague anti-whaling feeling if asked, but would likely not think about it much at other times.

I get a bit tired of you speaking as though it's just Australia, by the way...there's lots of anti-whaling feeling in other countries as well.

I also have never heard anyone here express an opinion anything like "Japanese whale just to piss off Australians". I assume you have seen such a sentiment expressed or you'd not say it, but I find it extra-ordinary. Human stupidity is pretty boundless though. You appear to be attributing that particular stupidity to me? Or are you just being generally angry with Australia? If you are thus attributing, I am bristling slightly.

As to the rest, we'll see. Whale meat seems to come at an extremely high price, and Japan is not as rich as it once was.

As for the pig, I still eat a tiny bit of free range ham, which has become very easy to get here (it's in the supermarkets). I won't eat anything that has been raised cruelly. I expect to stop eating it entirely very soon, because of their intelligence. It's beginning to feel like eating ape or elephant, and likely IS. Or cat or dog.

I am sure I saw you claiming that pigs are more intelligent than whales. (Did I dream it or something? I'll have a look sometime.) I agree with the points that you made in the post I am replying to, which is why I was surprised when I saw you make that claim.

Sea Shepherd Conservation Society was formally incorporated in the United States in 1981 in the state of Oregon. Previous to this, the idea of Sea Shepherd was formed when Captain Paul Watson founded the Earth Force Society in 1977 in Vancouver BC, Canada. The original mandate of both organizations was marine mammal protection and conservation with an immediate goal of shutting down illegal whaling and sealing operations, but Sea Shepherd later expanded its mission to include all marine wildlife.

In 1978, with financial support from Cleveland Amory of the Fund for Animals, the Society purchased its first ship (a British sea trawler Westella) and renamed it the Sea Shepherd. Its first mission was to sail to the ice floes of Eastern Canada to interfere with the annual killing of baby harp seals known as whitecoats. In the same year, the Sea Shepherd hunted down and rammed the notorious prolific pirate whaler the Sierra in a Portugal harbor ending its infamous career as the scourge of the seas.

Since those early days, Sea Shepherd has embarked on over 200 voyages covering many of the world's oceans and defending and saving defenseless marine life all along the way.

Why do we afford the Japanese some latitude that we wouldnt give the Iranians ?

Actually, I can't really blame these show animals.

to interfere with the annual killing of baby harp seals

Stopping the harp seal cull was the worst thing that ever happened to the green movement.