Page 28 is where I entered.
Ms Olga asks my opinion of overfishing Post: # 3,913,718
I replied:
Overfishing - bad bad bad, and bad. [and not the focus here, or so I'm told.
MsO: Seriously, you believe over-fishing the oceans is OK?
No, it's not the main focus of this thread as you would probably have noticed, but that doesn't mean it's not a subject of serious concern that shouldn't be discussed at all.
JTT: Japan makes more use of more things from the oceans than probably any other nation on Earth. While all these "righteous" nations were using fish stocks for fertilizer or just dumping them back overboard as waste, Japan was using them for food.
MsO: Japan does indeed make more use of "things from the ocean" than many other countries do. Many would argue far too much use. Including severely depleting tuna stocks in the Pacific & other oceans. Many conservationists & also countries whose off-shore fish stocks have been affected by over-fishing by the Japanese take constant issue over this. Japan has been fined for over-fishing.
JTT: Japan isn't perfect. Japanese fishing fleets aren't either. But Japan hardly stands alone as the only country that has depleted fish stocks.
MsO: Indeed, Japan is by no means the only nation which has depleted fish stocks. But it is by far the worst offender.
http://geociti.es/RainForest/4620/overfishing.htm
Dadpad: WHO POSES THE BIGGEST THREAT TO FISH STOCKS?
Of all the countries, Japan poses the greatest threat to the depletion of fish in the seas. Japan is the world's biggest consumer of fish and is under pressure to play a more active international conservation role and discourage its suppliers from overfishing the high seas. Tsukiji market, in Tokyo, is an extraordinary mortuary for global sea life, of whom are provided for a national appetite for fish that exceeds all others. The Australian bluefin tuna is expected to fetch about $15, 000 each. These enormous prices influence Japanese fisherpeople to sail past the government-set boundaries of Australia's waters and illegally fish there, hoping to catch as much as possible so to make a fortune.
Not only do the Japanese pose a problem for other countries' fish stocks, but also threaten the world's fish stocks as a whole. Each day, tens of thousands of tonnes of marine life, prised from rocks and scooped from oceans by factory ships working 24 hours a day, are auctioned in the early hours. There is a vast range, including trays of tiny translucent squid, crates of oysters, clams and molluscs. Also apparent are tanks full of salmon, snapper and octupus. Varieties of bonito, tuna and marlin are high in demand and most will end up on serving plates as fastidiously prepared sushi or sashami. Japan's taste for seafood is astonishing and only appears limited by price and availability. The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation estimates Japan devours 30 per cent of the world's fresh fish, close on 80 kilograms a year for each man, woman and child. Australians manage just 18 kilos.
Southern blue fin tuna
Quote:
The United Nations International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea in Hamburg granted an injunction sought by Australia and New Zealand, barring Japan from raising its annual 6,065-tonne quota.
The injunction restricting Japan to quota catch limits agreed between the three countries,
Dadpad: Japan admitted several years ago it had illegally taken more than 120,000 tonnes of southern bluefin tuna, but the actual figure is believed to be much higher.
JTT: [replied with info on whaling]
Farmer: Look whats happened to sword fish , red snapper,and Atlantic Cod and Chilean "Sea Bass" The numbers of the cod alone were considered "uncountable" and until the two years before the population crashed, fishing was going on unfettered.
Setanta: @dadpad,
Eighty kilos a year ? ! ? ! ?
Jesus wept, that's a half a pound a day. I think i'd get tired of fish rather quickly on a regime like that.
Really, that's just obscene.
JTT: It's quite easy to count whales, as compared to say cod, sea bass, ... .
[Then the gloves came off. After all the distortions and what I believe were some racist rants, I replied.]
I pointed out the distortion put forward by MsO and Dadpad that Japan was the greatest consumer of seafood products. It's not possible given the population of China. And I didn't even include the amounts consumed by Hong Kong or Macao.
I pointed out that the USA is the third largest consumer of seafood.
There's often the argument raised that Japan doesn't need whale meat. The USA doesn't need to import from all over the world 80% of its seafood. It has an ample land base and plenty of beef, pork and poultry. So much for that specious argument.
There was no response from anyone on these important issues,
Except for Farmer, who wanted to let me know that a whale is not a fish.
...
Setanta: It is not only appropriate to point out that whales are not fish, but also to make a distinction between wild food sources, such as whales and fish, and domestic animals.
[I believe MsO asked Set not to discuss fishing, but then she also said,
"No, it's not the main focus of this thread as you would probably have noticed, but that doesn't mean it's not a subject of serious concern that shouldn't be discussed at all."
I returned to a discussion of whaling. I did bring up the duplicity and underhandedness of the USA in their deal with Japan. It peripherally mentioned fishing because that was part of the deal.
Then along came Dlowan.
Dlowan: The fishing can be ignored, and was, I believe, until you began a digression about it, because this is a thread about whaling.
But she didn't ignore it. She went on at some length and took one more opportunity to bash Japan.
If Japan was fishing in Australian economic zone, they would have stopped them. If they didn't, all one can say is they are idiots. But every country has had the same problem.
She ended with, "However, that is not the subject of this thread, and, were I Msolga, I would simply ignore your digressions about it from now on. I shall."
Farmer: Packwood-Magneson has some good stuff in it that maybe you can use,
now that JTT has brought it up.
Then came the nonsense from Dlowan: As I said, over-fishing is a digression on this thread, and I think JTT has just brought it up to try to browbeat Msolga.
I'll not be drawn into discussing it on this whaling thread again. [2nd time]
[forgets what she just said]
As I said, though, it looks set to be a global catastrophe, as far as I can see.
And her second posting after this:
Dlowan: @georgeob1,
Well, boats get seized and destroyed and catches are impounded, and nobody has protested that that is done illegally, so I assume that the countries poaching fish take it as a fair cop.
I think the Japanese are to be taken to court over the enormous amount they have taken illegally, so I suppose that will be adjudicated.
By the way......these quotas are having a truly devastating effect on loval fisherfolk.
It was announced today that Australia's last tuna cannery is closing. That's in the local town of Port Lincoln, which is now facing economic ruin.
Australia is (gasp) operationalising tuna quotas set by a (gasp again) international body to which it belongs, and which has reduced the allowed catch for us by 25% in an attempt to regain sustainable tuna stocks.
MsO: Could I please ask again that the issue of over-fishing be the subject of a new thread?
Dlowan: [had at least the honesty to acknowledge her participation, many red face emoticons, but she lacked the decency and the honesty to address my requests about her false statements.]
MsO and Dlowan discussed the merits of starting a dishing thread, with Dlowan throwing out her,
"I am serious about thinking that JTT, for instance, just wants to bait you. He clearly doesn't give a fabulous flying **** about conservation."
one more time.
Farmer: [back with some whaling stuff in an area of the world that MsO had asked everyone to avoid discussing on this thread.
[digression on BofF problems]
Set: In fairness, ladies, i brought up fishing, because i see the exploitation of pelagic wild species in a cavalier fashion as being a part of an irresponsible attitude, the more reprehensible since there are ample, managed livestock resources by land.
I won't bring it up again, and my apologies to Miss Olga.
MsO; Bay of Fundy whale watching video.
MsO: No problem at all, Setanta.
[Dlowan is silent]
[I reminded her of her hypocrisy]
[Setanta and Gunga drop in with more racist remarks]
FM and I resume discussion on whaling. Not a word fro me on fishing.
Farmer: Japan can get along without whales on their sushi menus. They mine the seas and are being asked worldwide to stay outta our territorial waters. WHen the cod were decimated and then the herd crashed. Japan didnt give a crap They moved on to Pacific cod (Whose populations are now being reduced drastically).
ALL fishing needs to be assessed for sustainability and by not agreeing to amoratorium until the sustainability numbers are determined is national hubris and Japan is not practicing in good faith.
JTT: [I replied to these issues on fishing that
Farmer raised and guess what comes in his next response.
Farmer: 1WHY ARE WE DWELLING ON FISH. ARE YOU STILL CONFUSED AS TO PHYLA?. But, if you must,
I addressed these remarks and attempted to turn the discussion back to whaling and the IWC.
Anyone with an honest bone in their body should be able to see through this. Whenever it got too hot, out came the "this is a thread about whaling, stop talking about fishing" routine.
