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Mon 31 Dec, 2007 06:21 am
So, what's wrong with having your faith shaken?
Isn't one of the results developing a new understanding?
I havent had my coffee yet, I cant have my faith shaken until I get some F&*%^$g coffee.
The problem with faith is that it is a closed system. Find a chink in it, and the entire system falls, like a house of cards. Therefore, people who have a stake in "keeping the faith" rail at the idea of questioning it.
Logical inquiry and faith are polar opposites.
I think that people get their terminology confused at times.
Quote:The problem with faith is that it is a closed system.
Faith, even in a religious context, is an act. Acting on a belief, when you can't be 100% certain of that belief, is an act of faith.
It is blind belief that is a closed system, not faith.
vikorr is correct: no definition allows for identification of "faith" with "religion."
Faith isn't a closed system at all - history proves it.
Derailment ahead.
I had a girlfriend named Faith.
Not a closed system at all.
dadpad wrote:Derailment ahead.
I had a girlfriend named Faith.
Not a closed system at all.
So, she was not yours, faithfully?
Although I posted this in S&R, I'm thinking of faith in general.
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Where did I mention religion? I was discussing the concept of faith........."Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence." This may or may not refer to religious faith.
Sorry, but I didn't address my response to you.
Quote:Faith,
Greek Pistis , Latin Fides inner attitude, conviction, or trust relating man to a supreme God or ultimate salvation. In religious traditions stressing divine grace, it is the inner certainty or attitude of love granted by God himself. In Christian theology, faith is the divinely inspired human response to God's historical revelation through Jesus Christ and, consequently, is of crucial significance. [...]
Source:
"faith." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2007. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 31 Dec. 2007 [http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9033603].
Phoenix32890 wrote:Chai wrote:Although I posted this in S&R, I'm thinking of faith in general.
Chai- And that was how I was responding. I think that the forum where the thread was written confused some people. Perhaps if it were in philosophy...........
Well, I was also trying to get some people that believe in literal interpretations to respond also....so I was conflicted.
When we are very young, we have little experience. Our brains are in the process of developing. As a result, of necessity, most of the things that a little child "knows" is based on faith. "It is true because mommy or daddy says so". There is no questioning. Mommy and daddy are omnipotent, and therefore everything that they say HAS to be right.
As a child grows, and develops a greater understanding of the world, hopefully faith is, little by little, replaced by knowledge based on thought out conclusions. An older child knows that if he steps on a crack, he won't break his mother's back. The tooth fairy and Santa Claus become charming artifacts of early childhood.
Religion emerged at a time when humankind in general knew little of the workings of the universe. Therefore, everything that happened that was not understood as ascribed to some god or another, ultimate parent figures. As people became more sophisticated, the many gods were boiled down to one, but the concept was exactly the same. What people did not understand, they relied on "faith" for reassurance.
Over the centuries these beliefs were codified to the point where they became an integral part of civilization. To this day, many people still cling to faith to help them to cope with what is unknown.
I have always thought ( and this is rather insulting, even though I dont mean it to be) that faith was just the lack of desire to question .... what ever.. system you have faith in.
it could be religious, personal, spiritual, emotional..
Faith to me has always sounded like a term/word that implies that someone is just taking something at face value, and with out questioning the inner workings, expect that system to stay in place and continue to work no matter what.
But I think I am only rewording what has already been said.
shewolfnm- I don't think that what you wrote is insulting. But then again, we are on the same page with reference to faith.
I am not so sure that faith is entirely the lack of desire to question, although that is part of it. I think that fear of the unknown, and the desire for easy answers, is a greater motivation.
Faith is a good thing.
No one, not even the most knowledgable scientist gets by without relying on faith from time to time, even in his work.
For myself, I cannot believe in a religion or philosophy that doesn't make sense to me. In matters of my personal spiritual quest I have reached a place where faith is not required anymore. There may be no point in going into it, because it's very personal, and according to some, very esoteric.
Still, this view places some value in faith, not as a means to sustain the view itself, but as a means to sustain myself through life.
Self-esteem is a matter of faith, for instance...
But I agree with chai that to have one's beliefs shaken is usually a good thing.
I had someone one time, describe faith as " just knowing when you come to a stop sign that everyone else will stop too"
I think faith is a marvelous thing too.
However, I need to remain aware that no one belief that one has faith in exists in a vacuum.
This goes for matter both religious and non-religious.
examples
One may have faith in their fathers that they are loved, protected and are good men.
Later in life one learns that this man ridiculed you behind your back, molested a child, or did something that put you at risk (with a good reason or not).
This man may still have loved you and protected you, but your faith would be shaken.
As far as a belief in God...one may have faith there is God, but know enough not to have faith in, as Phoenix explained, writings by people who were simply not sophisticated enough to explain natural occurances, so created a story.
I have no faith that religious writings were somehow "inspired" by God. As shewolf said, seems like an easy out.
Faith has to do a lot with trust, with confidence.
I think, children-parent-relationship is a good example where faith works - and can be shaken up.
Phoenix32890 wrote:shewolfnm- I don't think that what you wrote is insulting. But then again, we are on the same page with reference to faith.
I am not so sure that faith is entirely the lack of desire to question, although that is part of it. I think that fear of the unknown, and the desire for easy answers, is a greater motivation.
If fear of the unknown was a greater motivation then millions of people would be cowering under their beds. Faith has nothing to do with fear and more to do with desire to believe. Hope rather than fear is a major motivator.
Hebrews has a good definition of faith:
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
This would not be only pertain for a religious definition.
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