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I do not fear death

 
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2008 02:41 pm
dlowan wrote:
Whether it mattered to the god or not, it was real.

It was real while a sentient being was experiencing it. Does it still exist when that being is dead?
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2008 02:46 pm
JLNobody wrote:
Rafamen, I think you do not take Terry's meaning accurately. By "dead" he did not mean after-dying; he meant not existing (both in the sense before birth or after life). Is that correct Terry?
I've said a number of times here that "after-life" and "before-birth" are essentially the same, and that we are never in a state of death after dying: this is because there will be no self (subject) to "be in a state of death" (predicate) after one's life/existence ends.

From a mystic's perspective, moreover, the ego-self never exists, either before birth, during life, or after life.

I don't know who aperson was quoting in the first post of this thread, but it wasn't me.

I agree with you that there is no-one to be in a "state of death" either before or after life.

But my ego-self insists that "I" do exist right now. Who am I to argue with it?

PS: I am a "she."
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2008 08:19 pm
Terry, that is one of the functions of the ego-self, to insist that it exists (paradoxically as it seems).

A "she"? That's good news.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2008 11:49 pm
Terry wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Whether it mattered to the god or not, it was real.

It was real while a sentient being was experiencing it. Does it still exist when that being is dead?


It existed at the time.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2008 05:04 pm
Ego is real in the same way that a mirage is real--a REAL mirage--but you can't drink from it.
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2008 03:31 pm
Nice post Terry. Theists are so caught up in "ultimate meaning" ie overall meaning. You and I both know that there is so such ultimate meaning - the only meaning exists if you decide to make it exist. I lead a meaningfull life, without believing in ultimate meaning. In the end, my puny life won't matter, but here's the thing - why is the end so special? Why do people only count things if the count in the end? What's wrong with now?

Buddhists say, "The only thing we really have is now." I love this statement. We are only experiencing one moment in time - now. Everything before is a memory, everything ahead is unknown. Who knows - maybe, assuming a brain in a vat senario, now is the only moment we have actually experienced, and all our memories and implanted.

I saw a doco about a man with a 7 second memory. He keeps a diary. In it are thousands of lines of "I am awake for the first time in my life". All but the latest entry have been scratched out. He undoubtedly only has now. So do we.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2008 06:15 pm
Great post, aperson. The situation of the man with a 7 second memory is not precisely like that of the buddhist who "lives in the present." The buddhist is aware that this moving present is what is, but he sees it normally as informed by memories of the past and anticipations of the future, even though the past and future do not exist in the sense of the present's existence. The man with the short memory, on the other hand, has presents that are uninformed by memory (at least for the most part: his knowledge of how to write or drive reflect "some" memory).
The buddhist, however, can also experience the present in an absolute sense, that is to say, a sense uninformed by memories and anticipations. But while meditating he or she embraces this exclusion of past and future, and they do not need that knowledge when meditating. The poor short-memory man sees his uninformed present as deficient, which it is.
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OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 05:31 pm
funny post, i realised the other day i dont experience fear at all.

a big ass mastiff attacked me a few days ago and i just, i dont know, i think i was just i can explain it.

same thing when i get robbed, i dont fear gettin shot or whatever im just there.

I havent had an adrenaline rush in years.

im only 22 is this bad or is this noirmal when u get older?

i do have ptsd and i been thru someshit, but i mean since i was little i realised death isnt something to fear, its something to embrace or whatever. it gives us extra space and fertiliser.
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 01:21 pm
aperson, we only experience "now" but our actions are constrained by the knowledge that what we do today affects how we experience "now" tomorrow. To expand on what JLN said, I must restrain my impulse to kill someone unless I want my future "nows" to be experienced inside a jail cell. My desire to experience the immediate pleasure of indulging in rich desserts is tempered by the memory of so many unpleasant "nows" at the gym and the calculation of how many more it will take to experience happiness knowing that my MOB dress fits perfectly next September.

If I am a brain in a vat, I'd like to talk to the sadistic entity who implanted my memories and is feeding the current sensory information to my brain.

If we had a cheap drug with no side effects that would not stop the pain experienced during surgery but would keep you from remembering it (like the "twilight sleep" induced by scopolamine), would it be ethical to use it?
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 01:24 pm
OGIONIK, failure to experience fear in threatening situations does not seem normal. Have you had counseling?

Would you use a drug (if something like propranolol could be perfected) if it would erase the memories of whatever caused your PTSD?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 07:39 pm
Terry wrote:
OGIONIK, failure to experience fear in threatening situations does not seem normal.
Have you had counseling?


Failure to fear is normal,
if threats pass quickly.
Then people don 't have enuf time to fear.

U want him to have counseling so that he will FEAR ?
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 08:18 pm
Fear is good if it teaches you to avoid threatening situations.

How long does it take for fear to occur? I would think that being robbed or attacked by a dog would give you more than enough time to assess the situation and respond emotionally. Does adrenaline suppress fear, or is it a response to fear?
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 08:23 pm
Trouble is, Terry, the free-floating fear some (chronically anxious) people experience--as if what they feared was life. The damage to their health from continuous flows of cortisol and adrenalin is dangerous
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 08:29 pm
I fear death every bit as much as I fear being ravaged by a javelina while hiking in the superstition mtns of arizona.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 08:37 pm
dyslexia wrote:
I fear death every bit as much as I fear being ravaged
by a javelina while hiking in the superstition mtns of arizona.

I hope u have a good anti-javelina gun.
David
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 08:43 pm
Dys, when I was ravaged by a javalina in New Mexico I found it rather pleasant; it was female.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 08:45 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I fear death every bit as much as I fear being ravaged
by a javelina while hiking in the superstition mtns of arizona.

I hope u have a good anti-javelina gun.
David
I have never carried a gun while hiking the superstitions, I rely on my brain to avoid dangerous situations. You might try the same david.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 09:06 pm
Terry wrote:
Fear is good if it teaches you to avoid threatening situations.

How long does it take for fear to occur?
I would think that being robbed or attacked by a dog would give you
more than enough time to assess the situation and respond emotionally.

I wud disagree with your thought.

During the 1990s, while returning from my girlfriend 's house around 1 am,
I was alone on Rt. 109 on Long Island, going toward Southern State Parkway to the City,
when an old car pulled abreast of me n put a bullet hole ( looked .38 )
in my driver 's side window about 3" forward of my position.
I did not vary my speed nor direction.
After thay saw my .44 stainless steel mirror revolver,
thay departed apace; ( must have had somewhere else to go ).
Fear was not an element in the incident.
Winston Churchill said that getting shot at " without effect " was exhilarating.
I only got a chuckle out of it; ( that and a hole in my window ).

Once I was attacked by a mountainous dog, named Boris,
according to his woman. He ambled up toward me with a huge smile,
until he was about a yard away, whereupon he lifted part of his lip up
into a snarl, and went airborne, landing one of his fangs in my left forearm.
I looked him in the face disdainfully, as if to say " what the hell r u doing ? "
and he broke off the attack instantly, sat down, and resumed his big smile.
Fear was not an element in the incident.
He left me with a .22 caliber fang hole in said forearm. It did not hurt,
but blood was falling out.
I told his woman that I wud not sue, and I did not sue her nor Boris.
For some years, I had that mark.



Quote:
Does adrenaline suppress fear, or is it a response to fear?

I did not have enuf time to secrete it.
Maybe I have a slow or lazy endocrine system.
The rest of me is slow n lazy.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 09:09 pm
dyslexia wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I fear death every bit as much as I fear being ravaged
by a javelina while hiking in the superstition mtns of arizona.

I hope u have a good anti-javelina gun.
David
I have never carried a gun while hiking the superstitions,
I rely on my brain to avoid dangerous situations.
You might try the same david.

I have every confidence that the snakes will respect your brain.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 09:17 pm
JLNobody wrote:
Dys, when I was ravaged by a javalina in New Mexico I found it rather pleasant; it was female.

Well, I did not get ravaged,
but a column of 3 peccaries ran in front
of my chauffer 's SUV, while we were on our way to go
for a hot air balloon ride over the Arizona desert early in the a.m. a few years ago.
0 Replies
 
 

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