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I do not fear death

 
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 07:13 pm
Oh please spare me this pathetic charade.
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Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 07:15 pm
Spell out for me which one that might be....
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 07:17 pm
I do not wish to be treated "gently", as a "pupil" or as a "grasshopper".

Perhaps if you had read my posts from up to two years ago before discovering my position then perhaps you wouldn't treat me as a "pupil" or a "grasshopper".
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Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 07:24 pm
aperson,

I'm making a point. You certainly can not think you know it all now, at x age.

I am still studying and deciding, and have decades on you.

I seriously respect a large number of folks on this forum, but it is not fairy land. We don't pretend to be something we entirely are not, or we could not, as a group retain the credibility to be what we are.

I am newer here than most, but if I know that if you pretend for too long, you will be exposed here.

I respect you FAR more, knowing that you are young. (It explains a LOT)

I hope you stick around with a touch less paranoia, and a bit more humility. I would enjoy watching you grow.

Rockhead
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 08:13 pm
Rockhead wrote:
It is making me be more gentle with you...

I have no basis on which to consider you inferior, I am trying to be fair.

I do not doubt your intelligence. I simply have seen glimpses of your path, and maturity is a growth process. Your journey still has a twist or two,
you just have not grasped the enormity of what it REALLY means.

It helps to debate on equal footing when one knows that he is dealing with a pupil, grasshopper.

RH


Actually, I, too, find your tone to aperson a tad condescending. All our journeys have (more) twists or two and many of us of all ages have not grasped the enormity of what it REALLY means. I ask you now - what does it all REALLY mean? Please advise me, for I admit, I do not know.

A pupil, grasshopper can be any age, so this is a patronizing statement.

And how does knowing a person is a pupil, grasshoper help one debate on an equal footing? Please advise me, for I admit, I do not understand.
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Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 08:19 pm
Mame, I do not pretend to have all the answers, and do not wish to be condescending to him. I did not understand the contradictions in his approach until I read and realized he was very young. I have no wish to run him off, just was trying to let him realize that a lot of us knew he was not an adult, but was attempting to post as though he was.

I mean him no ill will, and am attempting in my own pathetic way to nuture him a bit.

I once thought I was the smartest man alive, now I realize that i'm just another idiot. Age supplies a bit of wisdom, and youth is blind to it, no matter how you try to explain it.
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 08:35 pm
Rockhead wrote:
I have no wish to run him off, just was trying to let him realize that a lot of us knew he was not an adult, but was attempting to post as though he was.


That could have been done in a pm (not knowing if you have privileges).

Rockhead wrote:
I mean him no ill will, and am attempting in my own pathetic way to nuture him a bit.


Telling someone that you know they're young and have lots to learn is not nurturing. Intelligence and comprehension are not necessarily age-related. I'm sure I know quite a few people who have age on their side but less intelligence and comprehension than some younger people. It's not a given that Age = Intelligence + Comprehension (or even Maturity).

Rockhead wrote:
I once thought I was the smartest man alive, now I realize that i'm just another idiot. Age supplies a bit of wisdom, and youth is blind to it, no matter how you try to explain it.


Age does not always supply wisdom and youth does not always blindness to it. Some people just never gain wisdom, maturity, etc. and some are born with it.

I don't know aperson's age but I like the fact that he's here and engaged.
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Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 08:38 pm
Mame, I like those same facts.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 09:13 pm
I'm one of the people who don't feel I existed before, or will after death, except in the cosmic sense that we are all matter, part of the material universe continuum. Cold as that sounds, I'm pretty glad to have existed, do have near endless joy in it, and do feel fear, not so much for death itself, but for the lead-in to it. I'm aware of the potential gruesome and potentially long aspects of the lead-in, gruesome re pain, loss of communication and community, loss of capability, loss of other people caring, loss of even my caring re others.

And yet, there is some increase in preciousness re life as one goes along, or at least there can be. And so there is compensatory pleasure accompanying that bundle of fear... speaking for myself.
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 09:17 pm
Thank you for supporting me Mame.

Rockhead,
I see your comments as a personal attack on me. I find it sad that you have stooped to that level. I believe I have proved myself as mature and intelligent, and I am sure that other believe so too. With all due modesty, I believe that my maturity and intelligence surpasses some with decades on me. For almost two years here, I have treated as an equal and with respect. Someone once guessed my age at 30, with knowledge that I am younger than another of about 35. Just because you now know that I am very young, my maturity and intelligence have not suddenly disappeared and been replaced by arrogance and lack of experience. If I can pass for someone of 30 years, what difference does it make if I am not? I do not wish to be nurtured. I have survived without being nutured and I will continue to survive.

A message to the rest of you: those of you with maturity will continue to treat me as they have done before. I fully expect that those lacking maturity will patronise, condescend and belittle me, as Rockhead has done. Which are you?
0 Replies
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 09:19 pm
ossobuco,
I sometimes wonder whether death before old age would be a mercy.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 09:46 pm
Yes, it would seem so, sometimes.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 09:50 pm
One wonders if Roger Daltrey's views on that changed as he got older.
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George
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 09:53 pm
aperson wrote:
...A message to the rest of you: those of you with maturity will continue to treat me as they have done before. I fully expect that those lacking maturity will patronise, condescend and belittle me, as Rockhead has done. Which are you?

I don't think there was any intent to patronize, condescend, or belittle.
Rockhead has explained his intentions and I think he's been honest about it.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 09:57 pm
squinney wrote:
I do not fear death.

I don't think I was anything before I was me. I probably won't be much afterwards, either.

But, as you've stated, I won't know the difference.

I do not fear death.

I DO fear Gus.




My thoughts exactly. Except I have no fear of Gus whatsoever. Gus is a pussycat.

I find the realisation that fearing death makes as much sense as fearing never having existed very comforting and not in the least negative. I have no idea why people jumped on aperson for being negative....then again, why jump on anyone if they ARE being negative???

Thus, I am doubly surprised re the jumping upon.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 09:59 pm
aperson wrote:
Which are you?
I am the midnight rapier.
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George
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 10:02 pm
Chumly wrote:
aperson wrote:
Which are you?
I am the midnight rapier.

Ah HA!
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 10:03 pm
George wrote:
Chumly wrote:
aperson wrote:
Which are you?
I am the midnight rapier.

Ah HA!
You don't have to like me, but black is a good look for me.
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 10:05 pm
dlowan wrote:
... I find the realisation that fearing death makes as much sense as fearing never having existed very comforting...

I still don't get that. How can you fear never having existed?
The very fact of fearing it means you exist. No?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 10:54 pm
George wrote:
dlowan wrote:
... I find the realisation that fearing death makes as much sense as fearing never having existed very comforting...

I still don't get that. How can you fear never having existed?
The very fact of fearing it means you exist. No?



The sense, for me, is that (being not in existence) one experienced no distress in not existing means that one will similarly experience no distress when one no longer exists...because, as you say, there is nobody to experience ANYTHING.


It makes more emotional than logical sense.


I had many early deaths in my family, and was consequently very aware of personal mortality, and quite frightened of it for a long time.


The thought that death could be no more distressing than one's previous non existence was is very comforting to me. Ie..there is nothing in nothing to be fearful of. By definition. Clients with a phobic anxiety about death also seem to find it very comforting (I don't use it with folk who believe in an afterlife!!!). I think the fear of ceasing to exist is largely an artefact of somehow believing one will experience this state, and experience it negatively...almost that one will be around to experience this feared nothing.


From my point of view, the comparison I made is kind of a cognitive tool for making people able to realise that they won't be experiencing ANYTHING, much less fear or distress.

I know that isn't logical, but we do not live by logic, generally!!


Similarly, adolescents (and some adults) who flirt with suicide are often narcisistically imagining that they will be around to see their nearest and dearest self-flagellating, and extolling the wonders of the tragically departed.


Cognitively, it can, for some folk, be helpful to point out the ridiculousness of this belief. (If they believe in an afterlife, this one would not, of course, be helpful.)


Does this help at all?????
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