Safe-Water Catylitic

To my knowledge there is no salt free water softener available.
The system you linked to uses magnets and a micron filter.
These items don't use salt, but they don't soften the water either.

HTH ~

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Re: Safe-Water Catylitic

bentrider1957 wrote:

I am looking for a no-salt water conditioner and came up with SafeWater systems.

If you are looking for a water conditioner then you found one of the many. A conditioner will not remove the hardness or eliminate the deposits in your water heater, fixtures, and plumbing. It will not cut down on detergent usage or increase the life of your appliances.

A water conditioner is not a water softener and to infer that one is, is a sales tactic which is very profitable for the seller and very costly for the buyer.

To soften water is to remove calcium (among other things like iron) from the water and that is commonly done by one of two methods.

One method is ion exchange as done by a water softener. A water softener exchanges either sodium ions (if using NaCl) or potassium ions (if using KCl as a SALT SUBSTITUTE) for calcium (and other) ions in the hard water. That's it, no ifs, no ands, no buts, and no sales double talk. Simple chemistry and physics. Softening water is not black magic. It is physics and chemistry with a side of mechanics. No matter how hard sales people try (and want) to they can not violate the laws of physics or change the nature of chemical actions and reactions.

The other is by a filter and/or membrane technology or distillation, but no simple filter will remove calcium. You would need a reverse osmosis unit large enough to service your entire house. You would not want to pay for that big an RO nor pay for the service and routine maintenance it would require and RO water would be very agressive in your plumbing and it would waste a lot of water.

NO magnet(ic) gizmo or electronic gizmo or "conditioner" will soften water but people waste their money on them EVERYDAY.

Check out this URL for one story <a> http://www.nmsr.org/magnetic.htm </a> and there are many more on the net if you Google.

Pick the right softener (not a box store brand), size it properly for your water conditions and usage and the SFR of your plumbing, and get a competent install and you should go 15-20 years.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is that water treatment begins with a comprehensive water test so you know what needs to be treated or filtered out to get the quality water you want. Are you on a well or a water system? Do that and post the results so we might help.

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Water softener
We decided to go with a Whirlpool softener with a particulate filter (activated charcoal) filter. I decided based on some recommedations here and the fact that I got a coupon for 10% off at Lowes. I had a Kenmore softener at my old home for 5 years and it NEVER missed a beat. It is on-demand and it really didn't use a lot of salt. We had EXTREMELY hard water but we moved to Southern Arizona and I think it is even harder here. '

I know there MAY be better units, but I really liked my Kenmore, which is made by Whirlpool. We are just 2 persons in the house, so we won't use it a lot anyway.

Thanks again for the advice.

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Re: Water softener

bentrider1957 wrote:

We decided to go with a Whirlpool softener with a particulate filter (activated charcoal) filter. I decided based on some recommedations here and the fact that I got a coupon for 10% off at Lowes. I had a Kenmore softener at my old home for 5 years and it NEVER missed a beat. It is on-demand and it really didn't use a lot of salt. We had EXTREMELY hard water but we moved to Southern Arizona and I think it is even harder here. '

I know there MAY be better units, but I really liked my Kenmore, which is made by Whirlpool. We are just 2 persons in the house, so we won't use it a lot anyway.

Thanks again for the advice.

Let us know how that works out for you.

0 Replies

Re: Water softener

bentrider1957 wrote:

We decided to go with a Whirlpool softener with a particulate filter (activated charcoal) filter. I decided based on some recommedations here and the fact that I got a coupon for 10% off at Lowes. I had a Kenmore softener at my old home for 5 years and it NEVER missed a beat. It is on-demand and it really didn't use a lot of salt. We had EXTREMELY hard water but we moved to Southern Arizona and I think it is even harder here. '

I know there MAY be better units, but I really liked my Kenmore, which is made by Whirlpool. We are just 2 persons in the house, so we won't use it a lot anyway.

Thanks again for the advice.

Both Kenmore and Whirlpool is made by Ecowater, owned by Ecodyn. They also make the GE sold at Lowes, the North Star sold at plumbing supply houses and the Ecowater sold by their dealers.

Most if not all share the same control valve, by pass valve, resin tank and motor with the exception of the GE, it uses a different motor than the rest. They have very short warranties and last on average service free from 2-5 years.

They are all rotary disc and gasket type control valves made of cheap soft ABS plastic. They are not industry standard and the control valves clamp on the resin tank. They are hard to find anyone other than the local Sears service guy to work on them. Their one piece type construction, cabinet model, design is the hardest design to work on. They are low priced mass marketed to uninformed consumers softeners.

Conditioners are usually a softener with something else other than resin in the tank. Most times the something else will be something like carbon, KDF, acid neutralizer mineral etc. or a combination of those additional things like the Media Guard distributor tube. In other cases they will have anti scale descaling magnets or electronic devices with them and called a salt free softener or conditioner. The ydo not work in residential applications

Lately there is a resin media that is used in conditioners that makes the water act as if it were softened but... it is extremely expensive and the life is said to be only 5 years and then you throw the old media out and replace it with new. I've been testing one the last few months. The jury is still out but it does change the water some, but it is not the same as softened water.

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Re: Water softener

Gary Slusser wrote:

Both Kenmore and Whirlpool is made by Ecowater, owned by Ecodyn. They also make the GE sold at Lowes, the North Star sold at plumbing supply houses and the Ecowater sold by their dealers.

Yes, these are excellent systems!

EcoWater is without question the premier brand name system available to demanding homeowners.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

Lately there is a resin media that is used in conditioners that makes the water act as if it were softened but... it is extremely expensive and the life is said to be only 5 years and then you throw the old media out and replace it with new. I've been testing one the last few months. The jury is still out but it does change the water some, but it is not the same as softened water.

We were considering this type, assuming you mean the catalytic system like Natursoft's Pelican, mainly because it claims to dissolve scale, and scale is a horrible problem in our house. I tried to PM you, but evidently I haven't posted enough to earn that privilege, thus the public questions: How is the water different from ion-exchange salt systems? Does it help remove scale? Have you done the "frying pan" test with this water vs. other water? Since I can't use pm's, please email me at pstewart "at" innographx "dot" com (using the quotes/words to keep spambots from finding me).

OKAY, back to the reason I looked up this group...
We rent a water softener that says EcoSystems on the tank. We have well water and it doesn't seem to do the job. The Eco service guy keeps testing our water and claiming it's soft, but there is scale buildup on the shower and spots on glasses and white residue on pans that have been washed. Surely this isn't the best a softener can do!

We have rust stains and rotten egg smell, so we do need an iron and H2S filter, I know that. But, since we are buying this new filter, should we just buy a better softener that has the iron/H2S filter included? Found one by Raindance but it's over 2K. Is that a fair price for a combination system?

So, looking for the best softener for a reasonable price, with Fleck valve and long warranty. Any suggestions on a brand/model?

Thanks.
Phyllis

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Since your renting you can request that the EcoWater dealer install
a new softener and one of their new air-injection iron/sulfur filters.

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Re: Water softener

Gary Slusser wrote:

[Lately there is a resin media that is used in conditioners that makes the water act as if it were softened but... it is extremely expensive and the life is said to be only 5 years and then you throw the old media out and replace it with new. I've been testing one the last few months. The jury is still out but it does change the water some, but it is not the same as softened water.

How are you "testing" this? Did you install one to be personally monitored or getting reports from someone.? Are records of tests being kept? What do you mean "act as if it is soft"?

pstewart,

A dealer can come out an test your water a dozen times and find it to be 'soft' everytime and still you wonder why you are getting scale build-up and iron stains. Many systems are not set up properly and can 'run out' of softwater on a daily basis filling up water heaters with hard water and scale build up can be seen on faucets, etc.

The fry pan test can show white residue even with soft water, but it should be sodium rather than calcium. It is easy to tell which is which.

Sulfur is a different animal. A different technolgy is required to eliminate it, if that is what it really is as it can be misdiagnosed.

There are many choices in water treatment; some work far better, last longer and provide better service. Learn all you can and get quality equipment.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
awc222 at yahoo.com

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