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Mohammed to beat Jack as top UK boys' name by year end 2007

 
 
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 12:44 pm
Mohammed to beat Jack as top UK boys' name by year end 2007

What do we make of this?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 3,926 • Replies: 87
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contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 01:55 pm
Good to see British society is so diverse and welcoming. I am proud of my birthplace.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 06:23 pm
That's an interesting perspective.

Would you mind answering a few more questions?

Are you a native Brit?

How would describe your ethnicity?

Anglo-saxon, Welsh, Celtic etc.

If you are of a "traditional" british ethnicity which is to say one of the groups which dominated UK demographics pre-WWII,how do you feel about the possibility of these groups becoming a minority within the UK?

Assuming that this development with the name Mohammed is a harbringer of things to come, and Asian/Islamic cultural influences continue to expand, can there be a point where the UK is no longer British?

If it can, and it does, how would you feel about it?

I am genuinely interested in your honest responses and thank you in advance for them.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 06:25 pm
contrex wrote:
Good to see British society is so diverse and welcoming. I am proud of my birthplace.


Oops -- obviously you are a UK native.

One last question --- why did you move to France?
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contrex
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 12:57 am
Are you a native Brit?

-Yes (So is anyone born there)

How would describe your ethnicity?

Anglo-saxon, Welsh, Celtic etc.

-Anglo-Saxon I guess. That is a rather nonsensical question.

If you are of a "traditional" british ethnicity which is to say one of the groups which dominated UK demographics pre-WWII,how do you feel about the possibility of these groups becoming a minority within the UK?

-Relaxed because it won't happen. Rabble rousing right wing politicians notwithstanding. Only racists and people with a creepy agenda and Americans talk that way about "ethnicity".

Assuming that this development with the name Mohammed is a harbringer of things to come, and Asian/Islamic cultural influences continue to expand, can there be a point where the UK is no longer British?

-Did you mean "harbinger"?

-"Britishness" is continually evolving. My daughter married a Hindu from Mauritius. I am proud of my 4 grandchildren.

If it can, and it does, how would you feel about it?

-It can't and it won't.

why did you move to France?

-my job took me there, I had been fond of France since childhood, I studied the language at university, I work as a translator.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 02:43 am
What's with the twenty questions, Finn?

Are you happy that Texas was Indian, then Spanish, then Mexican, then WASP?
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contrex
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 03:50 am
A few points...

The story linked to is in the "Daily Telegraph", well known in the UK for being right-wing and "Olde England" biased and linked to the Conservative party.

There are approx 1.5 million Muslims out of a population of 60 million.

The name Mohammed belongs to the largest group of boys sharing the same name, (only if you lump all variant spellings together to make a scary headline) with 6,928 babies. Thomas is in second place with 5,991.

Hey! That's suspiciously the same as the 3rd figure for 2006... British rightwing newspapers are not above making up these things out of whole cloth. Neither British reporters nor most British readers (especially the right wing tabloid readers) are too hot on arithmetic anyway.

2006 births: 669,601 total, 342,429 male, 327,172 female. Thus 99% of all children are NOT called Mohammed.

Popular boy's names 2006... 1 Jack 6,928, 2 Muhammad (all spellings) 5,991, 3 Thomas 5,921, 4 Joshua 5,808, 5 Oliver 5,208, 6 Harry 5,006, 7 James 4,783, 8 William 4,327, 9 Samuel 4,320, 10 Daniel 4,303, 11 Charlie 4,178, 12 Benjamin 3,778, 13 Joseph 3,755, 14 Callum 3,517, 15 George 3,386, 16 Jake 3,353, 17 Alfie 3,194, 18 Luke 3,108,19 Matthew 3,043, 20 Ethan 3,020

Not quite so scary, eh?

Sivel-eyed racists and "swamping by muslims" fanatics love to cook up these figures that seem scary at first sight but which dissolve when looked at carefully.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 03:54 am
No-one in Britain is christened Mohammed.

Laughing
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solipsister
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 04:05 am
Ooo "harbringers", I love a good har.
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contrex
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 04:13 am
McTag wrote:
No-one in Britain is christened Mohammed.

Laughing


How do you know that? I agree it's unlikely, but it's not impossible.

The number of christenings in 2002 was 158000, out of 596122 live births.

Incidentally, if you lump all the variant spellings of John, Jack, Johnnie and Johnny, or Jim, Jimmy and James together, you could skew the names list another way entirely.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 04:50 am
McTag wrote:
No-one in Britain is christened Mohammed.

Laughing
A nice thought...I can see the child at the font now.


Finn, I think us brits are a bit more phlegmatic about issues such as these than 'mericans. I suppose I'm a typical example of the sort of person you might consider ought to be alarmed by the increasing numbers of non-ethnic British. In one way I am...more in a moment.

But the Telegraph article singles out the name Mohammed but fails to make clear that that name is chosen far more frequently among asian/pakistani families than other names. If they had the same mix of boys names no one name would dominate and it wouldnt appear so "threatening".

But having said that we are generally tolerant, what does get me is religiously inspired intolerance both within asian communities and to the wider population. There is no doubt that radical political islamists are at work within British/Asian communities seeking to reinforce differences and demanding "we" give ever more respect to "their" culture and religion. Of course this falls right into the lap of the real racists of the British National Party who want Britain ethnically cleansed. Its a volatile mix, and the Government is very worried about it. (Not helped by our chaotic border controls...or rather lack of control...we dont even count people in and out)

I have no problems with anyone of whatever "racial" origin who describes himself as a British muslim. But I do have qualms about those people who insist they are muslim first and foremost, adding that they happen to live in Britain almost as an afterthought.

I agree with Contrex that our tolerance is something to be proud of. But at the same time we should demand tolerance from people seeking to live here. That includes learning English and conforming to the basic norms and decencies of our way of life, which is not and never will be Islamic.
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 04:59 am
My good man please bring me a dozen hars immediatly.


I need several god hars every know and again.

Har har, har har.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 05:26 am
You want what dp? Strewth. I'll be stuffed. Fair suck of the sav!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 06:51 am
The Telegraph, Finn's source, wrote:
Jack was the most popular boys' name last year, chosen for 6,928 babies. Mohammed - taking into account all of its variant spellings - overtook Thomas to lie in second place with 5,991 babies named.


The General Register Office for England and Wales wrote:
Jack continues to reign at number one with 6928 boys sharing the name in 2006. Thomas has pushed Joshua down to third for the first time since 2001. Oliver has made it to number four whilst Harry has risen four places forcing James out of the top five for the first time in several years.

Theo makes it into the top 100 boys' names for the first time with 646 registrations.


Btw: those data are only for England and Wales, not for Britain or the UK as Finn makes us believe.
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contrex
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 07:39 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Btw: those data are only for England and Wales, not for Britain or the UK as Finn makes us believe.


Most yanks think "England", "The UK" and "Britain" are the same place.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 07:39 am
Americans are unclear about the difference.

Smile

Bless them. They think "England" is the bit of Yurp which isn't France or Germany.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 07:56 am
McTag wrote:
Bless them. They think "England" is the bit of Yurp which isn't France or Germany.


Is England the big island or the little island?
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contrex
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 07:58 am
McTag wrote:
Americans are unclear about the difference.

Smile

Bless them. They think "England" is the bit of Yurp which isn't France or Germany.


Curious how such ignorance does not stop them feeling entitled to spout on about how we ought to run our countries.
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Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 09:27 am
Oh, yes, pish-posh to those silly, uncouth yanks. They ought to be ashamed, what with their eating with elbows on the table, passing the salt without passing the pepper, preferring feet to meters, etc. You'd find better manners in a chimney sweep! It's enough to knock off my bowler cap, unwind my bowtie, and fog up my monocle.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 09:29 am
contrex wrote:
McTag wrote:
Americans are unclear about the difference.

Smile

Bless them. They think "England" is the bit of Yurp which isn't France or Germany.


Curious how such ignorance does not stop them feeling entitled to spout on about how we ought to run our countries.


Fair play, contrex. I tell them how I think they should run their country, after all.
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