Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

So, here's something interesting:

http://calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5248

Calitics is reporting:

Quote:

Today the results of the February 5 primary become official. The final spread in the popular vote between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is 8.9%. Clinton garnered 51.8% to Obama's 42.9%. The final delegates will be 203 for Clinton to 167 for Obama. This roughly averages out to the exact spread in the head-to-head popular vote (Hillary got 54.6% of the head-to-head vote and 54.8% of the delegates), so the convoluted delegate apportionment system worked in the case of California.

I'm also pleased to announce that 47,153 "double bubble" votes were counted in Los Angeles County. The expectation on the day of the election was that none of these ballots from decline to state voters would be counted, but the pressure put on by the Courage Campaign and other groups led to this result. And by the way, 51% of those votes went to Hillary Clinton and 42% to Barack Obama, so those who insisted upon viewing this through some partisan lens can respectfully shut the **** up. This was about voter rights and remedying disenfranchisement; it always was, even though it had no material impact on the overall election.

203-167 is more delegates for Obama. Per Demconwatch's AP numbers, it's a net shift of +6 for Obama. Per CNN, +8.

That's about how much Clinton garnered from OH and TX. The delegate advantage, gone, just like that.

Cycloptichorn

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dyslexia wrote:

okie wrote:
call it demographics
Yes it's quite obvious that "demographics" is a liberal construct used to gain mind control over unsuspecting political retards in a conspiracy to ban all guns in the state of OklaDamnHoma while polluting their drinking water with fluoride leaving them unprotected from communism.

You are dense, aren't you? You missed the whole point of the post.

Demographics if fine to a point, but when it begins to pit one group against another, enough is enough. I think its time we all become individuals judged by the content of our character, not by the color of our skin or something else. Enumerating all the groups down to a gnats hair is not very productive in my opinion. If you've ever filled out a census form, you would know what I mean, at least I hope you would. That is a good example of a government bureaucracy run amok.

And your party is pitting groups against each other, more than ever. You shoud be disturbed. And we all should. If everyone now considers themselves part of a group instead of as individuals, we are in trouble.

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Okie, it's a wonder you still know how to breath.

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Quote:

And your party is pitting groups against each other, more than ever. You shoud be disturbed. And we all should. If everyone now considers themselves part of a group instead of as individuals, we are in trouble.

Damn all those individuals who sailed across the ocean to the new world and formed into groups we now call the United States.

Damn those uppity tea drinkers in Boston oh so long ago. The audacity of those individuals to form into a group to demand a change in their representational government is just disgusting.

Damn those individually brave women who saw a need and banded together in groups to fill jobs in factories and grow victory gardens to help the country thrive and survive the years of war in WW2.

Damn all those nosy neighbors who band together in a group to take back and patrol their neighborhoods.

Damn all those college graduates who identify themselves by their alma mater and fraternaties during job interviews.

Damn all those holier than thou folks who formed the "Moral Majority" group and made Jerry Farthewell famous.

Damn all those parents who take their kids to boy scounts, girl scouts and form local groups that are part of the larger national groups with so much pride.

Damn all those religious folks who form into religious groups and spend all their time telling other individuals how they should run their lives.

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You miss the point.

The Dems make a living off of people that take their walking orders from unions leaders, feminine leaders, racial leaders, on and on. Don't you think its time you vote for somebody that believes in something besides being part of a group, such as a black, a latino, a union member, whatever. These same groups vote for the politicians based on that politicians promises to that group. How about upholding principles of individual freedom and responsibility and enforcing the laws for all Americans for a change and try to forget what group you belong to? Wouldn't that be refreshing for a change?

You probably don't get it, and that is why some of you are Democrats and some of us are Republicans.

When the Beatles were hot in the 60's and it was the in thing to smoke pot, I avoided the fads and the groupee thing then. It was idiotic then and it is idiotic now.

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okie wrote:

some of us are Republicans.

okie wrote:

I avoided the fads and the groupee thing then. It was idiotic then and it is idiotic now.

You didn't note the irony in your post, I assume...

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No irony there. Have you noticed the problems Republicans have in getting anything done in Congress when they do have the majority? They tend to act and vote more like individuals. I think there is less of Republicans taking fellow Republicans behind the woodshed and telling them you vote this way or else.

And there is no doubt the Democrats are made up of more group constituencies.

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Oh I get it. I'm also humored by your righteous rhetoric voiced with the labels you apply to wide swaths of people when it suits your own purpose.

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okie wrote:

No irony there. Have you noticed the problems Republicans have in getting anything done in Congress when they do have the majority? They tend to act and vote more like individuals. I think there is less of Republicans taking fellow Republicans behind the woodshed and telling them you vote this way or else.

Incredible, just freakin' incredible.

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okie wrote:

No irony there.

In that case, this would be my suggestion as to what you should use as a sig line:

"At least we Republicans have no group mentality."

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Dems make their living off of pitting the black vs non-black, latino against whomever, unions against whomever, old people against whomever, children against whomever, poor against the rich, the environment against capitalism, you name it. This has been obvious for a long time.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but go ahead and keep analyzing all of your little groups, and who will vote for Clinton and Obama, and so on. I am just pointing out it is instructive if you would take note of what you are involved in.

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okie wrote:

Dems make their living off of pitting the black vs non-black, latino against whomever, unions against whomever, old people against whomever, children against whomever, poor against the rich, the environment against capitalism, you name it. This has been obvious for a long time.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but go ahead and keep analyzing all of your little groups, and who will vote for Clinton and Obama, and so on. I am just pointing out it is instructive if you would take note of what you are involved in.

Whereas Republicans make a living off of keeping the whites above everyone else; obvious for a long time, wouldn't you say?

Cycloptichorn

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okie wrote:

go ahead and keep analyzing all of your little groups, and who will vote for Clinton and Obama, and so on. I am just pointing out it is instructive if you would take note of what you are involved in.

Yes, because obviously any demographic analysis of voting patterns is just part of the wider Dem/liberal scheme to pit people against each other. Researchers take note! You may think you're just studying political geography, but in reality you're just a pawn in the liberal plot.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Whereas Republicans make a living off of keeping the whites above everyone else; obvious for a long time, wouldn't you say?

I think wealth trumps race: the Republican Party's political machine is primarily about defending the interests of the well-to-do against the demands of the poor. Racial prejudices, just like the religious issues that are thrown to the evangelical voters as a bone, are just tools to bind specific voter groups to the Republican agenda.

The agenda itself is not about race or religion or gun rights or flag waving; it's about defending the interests of corporations and the better-off in society, with some hegemonic foreign policy interests thrown in.

Thats just my opinion tho - the perspective of a cynical European lefty.

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nimh wrote:

okie wrote:
go ahead and keep analyzing all of your little groups, and who will vote for Clinton and Obama, and so on. I am just pointing out it is instructive if you would take note of what you are involved in.

Yes, because obviously any demographic analysis of voting patterns is just part of the wider Dem/liberal scheme to pit people against each other. Researchers take note! You may think you're just studying political geography, but in reality you're just a pawn in the liberal plot.

As I said, your work is all fine, I don't want to be mis-interpreted, but it is simply my opinion that this sort of thing can be used by politicians and taken to the extreme to pander to groups, and indeed we see that is happening big time. Perhaps the blame lies more with politicians than the researchers, I admit to that, but count me one to grow fairly tired of all of the group analysis. I don't consider myself to be part of a group when I go vote and I don't take marching orders from anyone that may consider themselves some kind of community leader, union leader, or whatever.

To take what you said about a liberal plot, I do think Obama and Clinton are actively plotting strategies all the time to maximize their support among their chosen groups, and we see the strategies change as they go from state to state, depending on which constituencies they encounter. Sure all policiticans do this, but the Democrats / liberals have perfected this craft in a big way. It is transparently phony, and count me one to be very tired of this type of phony politics.

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nimh wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Whereas Republicans make a living off of keeping the whites above everyone else; obvious for a long time, wouldn't you say?

I think wealth trumps race: the Republican Party's political machine is primarily about defending the interests of the well-to-do against the demands of the poor. Racial prejudices, just like the religious issues that are thrown to the evangelical voters as a bone, are just tools to bind specific voter groups to the Republican agenda.

The agenda itself is not about race or religion or gun rights or flag waving; it's about defending the interests of corporations and the better-off in society, with some hegemonic foreign policy interests thrown in.

Thats just my opinion tho - the perspective of a cynical European lefty.

Yeah, you're more correct then I am on this one. But, I must say; there's a real lack of elected AA's or Latinos in the Republican party. In fact, I think that there are exactly zero African Americans; and surely there are some rich ones out there that could be chosen.

Cycloptichorn

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nimh wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Whereas Republicans make a living off of keeping the whites above everyone else; obvious for a long time, wouldn't you say?

I think wealth trumps race: the Republican Party's political machine is primarily about defending the interests of the well-to-do against the demands of the poor. Racial prejudices, just like the religious issues that are thrown to the evangelical voters as a bone, are just tools to bind specific voter groups to the Republican agenda.

The agenda itself is not about race or religion or gun rights or flag waving; it's about defending the interests of corporations and the better-off in society, with some hegemonic foreign policy interests thrown in.

Thats just my opinion tho - the perspective of a cynical European lefty.

This is the type of comments that really make me angry. This is the typical liberal mindset, confirming what I am saying here, you don't see people as individuals, you see them as groups, the downtrodden against some mythical enemy. Well, the enemy is yourself, not somebody else. I am fed up with Democrats blaming everyone else for their own imagined misery.

Its about defending the rights of individuals and free enterprise, private property rights, and the rights of all people as individuals to pursue happiness, not to guarantee it by robbing the rich.

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okie wrote:

nimh wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Whereas Republicans make a living off of keeping the whites above everyone else; obvious for a long time, wouldn't you say?

I think wealth trumps race: the Republican Party's political machine is primarily about defending the interests of the well-to-do against the demands of the poor. Racial prejudices, just like the religious issues that are thrown to the evangelical voters as a bone, are just tools to bind specific voter groups to the Republican agenda.

The agenda itself is not about race or religion or gun rights or flag waving; it's about defending the interests of corporations and the better-off in society, with some hegemonic foreign policy interests thrown in.

Thats just my opinion tho - the perspective of a cynical European lefty.

This is the type of comments that really make me angry. This is the typical liberal mindset, confirming what I am saying here, you don't see people as individuals, you see them as groups, the downtrodden against some mythical enemy. Well, the enemy is yourself, not somebody else. I am fed up with Democrats blaming everyone else for their own imagined misery.

Its about defending the rights of individuals and free enterprise, private property rights, and the rights of all people as individuals to pursue happiness, not to guarantee it by robbing the rich.

No, it's about protecting those with money. It doesn't matter what words you wish to use; the actions are quite clear.

Cycloptichorn

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Its about protecting what somebody earns and they own. You got a problem with that? Get off your duff and earn your own money instead of complainin about the rich.

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okie wrote:

Its about protecting what somebody earns and they own. You got a problem with that? Get off your duff and earn your own money instead of complainin about the rich.

I am busy doing that, thanks. I just don't expect special treatment once I've gotten there, like your party seems to expect.

Face it - the Republican party is the party of the White and the Rich. That's the base.

Cycloptichorn

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Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

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