17
   

Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Apr, 2008 06:38 pm
And in the background, the drip drip drip of superdelegates to Obama continues:

Marc Ambinder: "By my count, Obama has won the backing of six superdelegates since last week to Clinton's zero".
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Apr, 2008 06:42 pm
Drip drip drip indeed!

First Read has it at +65 for Obama and -3 for Hillary since February 5th. (That was from memory and now I can't find it back! Argh. Around there though.)
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Apr, 2008 06:44 pm
While I was looking (may not have been First Read), I found this factoid I thought you might like:

Quote:
For each day that he spends campaigning in a state in the 30 days in the run-up to the election, Obama can expect to gain about 3.5 points in his margin over Clinton. And for every day that Clinton spends campaigning in that state, Obama can expect to lose about 2.4 points.


http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/04/on-value-of-campaign.html
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Apr, 2008 06:50 pm
Everything can be quantified Smile

(OK, not everything..)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Apr, 2008 06:55 pm
Everyone repeat after me: Hillary's or Obama's performance in a primary says little about that candidate's prospects in that state in the general elections..

More controversially perhaps: going on the state-by-state polls, at least, Clinton and Obama are now about equally "electable".

From Andrew Kohut in the NYT:

Quote:
No Clear Advantagehttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/04/16/opinion/16chart.533.gif
Chart: How Clinton and Obama Match Up Against McCainSource: Pew Research Center
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Apr, 2008 06:57 pm
I agree the data isn't currently there. It's my firm conviction that, given a whole bunch of factors we already know and extrapolating from them, Obama is more electable. But it's impossible to prove. (It's not about polls but how it would actually play out, and unless we rig up an alternate universe it will be either Obama vs McCain or Hillary vs. McCain and no way to compare the two races.)
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:44 am
Wow, only a 3 pt spread in PA according to Rasmussen!

Quote:
The Democratic Presidential Primary in Pennsylvania is getting even closer. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in the state shows Hillary Clinton with 47% of the vote and Barack Obama with 44%. This election poll was conducted Thursday night, the night following a nationally televised debate between the candidates. Last Monday, Clinton was leading Obama 50% to 41%.


6% of the Obama-ites say they might switch, compared to 2% of Clintonites. Still, wow! (I place more credence in this one than Zogby.)

<tamps down expectations -- hey they're kind of feisty -- down!>
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 03:14 pm
This is long, but it's all very interesting - and mostly encouraging - stuff in here:



These voters who think Obama is or might be Muslim *and* are planning to vote for him sure are intriguing/puzzling/interesting...

Oh, and note to self: post this part in another thread as well:

"It produced an estimate of about 13 percent of Republicans who would feel that way, but suggested very few if any Democrats would now be uncomfortable. In November, about 5 percent of Democrats indicated discomfort at voting for a black person for president."
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 03:35 pm
Newsweek: Obama up 19 points nationally.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/132721?from=rss

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 04:54 pm
Gallup daily tracking poll:

47% (-2) Obama
44% (+2) Clinton

The Gallup people comment:

Quote:
These results are based on interviewing conducted April 15-17, with Thursday night's interviewing the first conducted following the April 16 debate in Philadelphia. The initial indications are that Obama may have been hurt by the debate [..].

In Thursday night's interviewing, Clinton received a greater share of national Democratic support than Obama, the first time she has done so in an individual night's interviewing since April 3. [..]

The full impact of the debate -- and the ensuing media coverage of it -- will be apparent in the coming days, and it will soon be clear if the debate has produced a shift back to a more competitive race, or if Clinton may have received just a temporary boost in support.

It's the lowest score for Obama in the Gallup poll since 27 March, 24 days ago. The number for Clinton is less spectacular: it's the highest since 6 April, 13 days ago.

Rasmussen seems to show a slight effect of the debate as well today, with Obama suffering a bit but Clinton not picking up:

46% (-2) Obama
41% (no ch.) Clinton

Interesting, actually. On average, Obama is down to 46.5%, only the second day in which he's that low in three and a half weeks, since 27 March. But Clinton's average of 42.5% is nothing special: she's been at 41-44% for over two weeks now. Instead, the number of undecideds is back up, after decreasing for a long time. It was down to 7% on April 7; now it's back up to 11%. That's the highest it's been since 21 February.

Here's the graph:


http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1871/galluprasmusdems14rl5.png
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 07:07 pm
This is a little old - it's about data collected by Gallup throughout the month of March - but it's a very interesting look at the differences that exist between Barack Obama's and Hillary Clinton's general elections appeal.

Plus, since the numbers are taken from a whole month of daily tracking poll data (almost 20,000 respondents in all!), they're a lot more solidly rooted than just any poll, allowing for a reliable level of breakdown by individual subgroup.

There's a fascinating paradox in the data about white voters. Clinton does better among Democrats, while Obama does better among Independents and attracts more Republican cross-over voters. So, you'd think, that puts Obama's electoral appeal to the right of Clinton's. But at the same time, when it comes to the Democrats, Clinton does especially well among conservative Dems (of whom just half would vote for Obama!), while Obama holds his own best among liberal Dems. Which puts Obama's appeal to the left of Clinton's.

Maybe another indication that the differences are more about sociology than about politics or ideology?

Quote:
Obama, Clinton Leverage Different Groups vs. McCain

Gallup
April 2, 2008

Gallup Poll Daily tracking results for the general election have shown that both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are essentially tied with John McCain among registered voters nationwide.


http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/20080327Democrats1dfw062430.gif


At this point, then, there would appear not to be a major difference in the overall strength that either Democratic candidate would bring to bear in the general election against McCain.

But an analysis of the vote patterns within segments of the voting population shows that the way in which the two Democratic candidates arrive at that parity with McCain is quite different.

A new Gallup analysis of 19,076 interviews conducted between March 7 and March 29 segments the registered voters into a number of groups, based on partisan identification and ideology.

The basic relationship between these two variables and the general election vote is displayed in the accompanying tables.


http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/20080327Democrats3dfw062430.gif


In a broad sense, the difference in voting patterns for both Democratic candidates by partisan/ideological group follows a predictable pattern. The two candidates do best among liberal Democrats, and then progressively worse among moderate Democrats, conservative Democrats, "pure" independents (who do not lean toward one party or the other), and moderate/liberal Republicans. They do worst among conservative Republicans.

The analysis can be continued with a more detailed examination of the electorate, separating voters into three groups based on race and ethnicity. Given the dominant percentage of non-Hispanic whites in the sample, the accompanying table displays the vote of non-Hispanic whites broken into partisan and ideological categories, along with the voting patterns of white Hispanics and non-Hispanic blacks.


http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/20080327Democrats4dfw062430.gif

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/20080327Democrats5dfw062430.gif


Here, Obama's margin over McCain among non-Hispanic black registered voters is 85 points, while Clinton's margin is 69 points. In other words, while both Democrats dominate McCain among black voters, Obama has a significantly larger margin over McCain than does Clinton. (It appears that black voters are less likely to say they would vote for Clinton against McCain and more likely to say they don't have a preference between the two.)

Clinton does slightly better than Obama against McCain among Hispanics.

There are different, and interesting, patterns in the relative performances of Clinton and Obama against McCain among whites across party and ideological groups.

In general, Clinton does better among all three groups of white Democrats against McCain than does Obama. The difference between Obama and Clinton is largest among conservative white Democrats. In fact, among this group, Obama manages to get only 50% of the vote to McCain's 35%, while Clinton wins by a much larger 68% to 25% margin.

Obama makes up for this, however, with a stronger relative performance among independents and Republicans. While McCain outpolls both Clinton and Obama among "pure independents," Obama is somewhat more competitive with him among this group (trailing by 22 points, compared with 32 points for Clinton). McCain, of course, beats both candidates by significant margins among the two groups of Republicans used in this analysis. But again, Clinton loses by slightly larger margins than does Obama.

Implications

At this point in the election cycle, there are more Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents than there are Republicans and Republican-leaning independents. McCain has been able to hold his own against the two Democratic candidates in the general election trial heat ballots in the face of this disparity mostly because he does very well among conservative Republicans and wins among independents.

The two Democratic candidates offer different profiles of strengths and weaknesses when pitted against Republican McCain in the general election. Obama's strength is his appeal to black voters, and his somewhat greater appeal than Clinton's to independents and Republicans. On the other hand, although Clinton attracts the support of a lower percentage of blacks than Obama, she has a stronger appeal to white Democrats, particularly white conservative Democrats, only half of whom at this point say they would vote for Obama if he were the nominee pitted against McCain. Clinton has a very slight advantage over Obama in the matchup with McCain among Hispanics.

When the votes of all registered voters are averaged, as noted previously, the two Democratic candidates end up performing about the same against McCain. Clinton appears better able to gain the support of the Democratic base, particularly Democrats more on the fringe of the party (conservatives), while Obama builds his coalition with a stronger appeal to independents, Republicans, and black voters.

Obama enjoys the traditionally high support from black Democrats that all recent Democratic nominees have received. However, Obama would have the challenge of shoring up support among white Democrats if he were the nominee, while Clinton would be faced with the prospect of expanding her support among independents and "soft" Republicans (while at the same time motivating black voters). Looking ahead to the fall election, it is not clear at this point if one of these profiles of support is better from a strategic campaign perspective than the other.

Survey Methods

Results are based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking interviews with 19,076 registered voters, aged 18 and older, conducted March 7-29, 2008. For results based on the total sample of registered voters, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±1 percentage point.

Interviews are conducted with respondents on land-line telephones (for respondents with a land-line telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell-phone only).

In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.


http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/20080327Democrats6dfw062430.gif
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 07:09 pm
(Odd. Those images show up in Firefox, but not in IE, for me..)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 10:17 am
Quote:
But at the same time, when it comes to the Democrats, Clinton does especially well among conservative Dems (of whom just half would vote for Obama!), while Obama holds his own best among liberal Dems. Which puts Obama's appeal to the left of Clinton's.


Just my personal opinion, but I believe that Conservative - which often means 'small-town' - Dems are more likely to have racial motivations for their voting patterns.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 01:37 pm
nimh wrote:

There's a fascinating paradox in the data about white voters. Clinton does better among Democrats, while Obama does better among Independents and attracts more Republican cross-over voters.


Possible or probable translation, Republicans and independents are less racially biased than Democrats. It is only a paradox to those that don't understand what has been going on for decades.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 01:41 pm
Good evening. I re-listened to an NPR interview from this morning with Terry Modonna from Franklin and Marshall University in PA. He made this statement: There are 275,000 newly registered Democratic voters in PA since 1/1/2008 through 3/24/2008. Some are brand new voters while some are "switchers" from Independent or Republican. According to his polling 62% of those folks are going for Obama. By my calculation, some 66,000 votes.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 02:01 pm
It could be part of Rush Limbaugh's "operation chaos," rjb. By the way, I don't think that was a good thing for Limbaugh to do, I don't agree with it, but he has the right to do it. His motivation is not for either candidate to win, but to help prolong the battle between Obama and Clinton so that they continue to do damage to each other, and also the press is more likely to print negative press on the Democrats now than later.

On a personal basis, I have known of people all my life that either registered or remained in a party so that they could vote for a nominee that they thought had the worst chance of winning in the general. This is entirely freedom of personal choice. Actually, it is not uncommon for almost anyone to occasionally favor the opposite party, so they vote for the weakest in their own party in the primary, then vote for their opponent in the general for that particular election.

In my opinion, much of the party switching probably is made up of people that are caught up in Obama mania, the celebrity aspect of this election.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 02:34 pm
You could be right, okie, but this thread is about polls and stuff. I will catch up with you over on one of the other political threads.
But I would add that I have seen no evidence that the "Rush chaos" theory has any merit.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 02:48 pm
okie wrote:
Possible or probable translation, Republicans and independents are less racially biased than Democrats.

Huh?

1. What the poll said was that Obama outdid Clinton among Republicans and Independents. But the overwhelming majority of Republicans, of course, wouldnt vote for either. So these numbers say nothing, either way, about the (lack of) racial bias this overwhelming majority of Republicans might have.

2. Think about the implications of your argument. You're arguing that the fact that some Republicans are willing to vote for Obama (more than for Clinton) means they're not racially biased. But of course many more Indies, and many more Dems still, even conservative ones, are willing to vote for Obama. So...?

3. Plus, look at the other side of the paradox: conservative Democrats are a lot less willing to vote for Obama than liberal Democrats. Just like conservative Republicans are a lot less willing to vote for Obama than moderate Republicans. So using your logic, you'd agree that conservatives are more racially biased than liberals then?

<shakes head> These are nonsequiturs. Whichever is true, these numbers say little about it.

These are the data:

- five out of six liberal Democrats would vote for Obama against McCain
- two out of three moderate Democrats would
- one out of two conservative Demorats would
- one out of four pure Independents would
- one out of six moderate/liberal Republicans would
- one out of twenty conservative Republicans would
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 02:51 pm
okie wrote:
Possible or probable translation, Republicans and independents are less racially biased than Democrats. It is only a paradox to those that don't understand what has been going on for decades.

An addendum on this one: did you see the AP poll I posted yesterday?

This is what it found:

Quote:
Obama would be the first black president, and the survey detected some evidence of racial discomfort in voters' minds. It found that about 8 percent of whites would be uncomfortable voting for a black for president.

It produced an estimate of about 13 percent of Republicans who would feel that way, but suggested very few if any Democrats would now be uncomfortable.

In November, about 5 percent of Democrats indicated discomfort at voting for a black person for president.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 03:14 pm
Uh-oh..

Quote:
Gallup Daily: Clinton 46%, Obama 45%

Gallup Poll Daily tracking shows that Hillary Clinton now receives 46% of the support of Democrats nationally, compared to 45% for Barack Obama, marking the first time Obama has not led in Gallup's daily tracking since March 18-20.

These results are based on interviewing conducted April 16-18, including two days of interviewing after the contentious Wednesday night debate in Philadelphia and the media focus that followed. Support for Hillary Clinton has been significantly higher in both of these post-debate nights of interviewing than in recent weeks. [..]


http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/041908DailyUpdateGraph1_trew634.gif


There has been no change in the general election trial heats, with Obama's margin over Republican John McCain at 45% to 44% among registered voters nationally, and Clinton's margin at 46% to 44%


The Rasmussen daily tracking poll shows a tightening of the numbers too, but its analysis cautions against overinterpretation:

Quote:
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll

[..] In the race for the Democratic Presidential Nomination, Obama leads Clinton nationally 45% to 43% (see recent daily Democratic Nomination results). While that appears to be a tightening of the race, today's results are consistent with the general range of support enjoyed by both candidates in recent weeks. Obama has been within three percentage points of the 48% level every day and Clinton has stayed within three points of the 43% level.


http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8522/rasmusdemszw6.png


[..] The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows John McCain leading both potential Democratic candidates by seven percentage points. McCain leads Barack Obama, 48% to 41% and also leads Hillary Clinton 49% to 42%.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 11/16/2024 at 06:27:46