What is crossing the line?

There are differing levels of relationships you know. Just because you're not sure you want to marry the girl, doesn't mean you have to 'give up the relationship' (that is unless she's said that she wants a commitment or nothing at all).

But if you don't enjoy or excite each other sexually, I wouldn't get married. Fifty (or more) years is a long time to spend with someone you say you already find boring. I can't imagine she would want to be with someone who thought she was sexually boring...does she have self-esteem problems? Or have you neglected to tell her she bores you? And is there any possibility you bore her sexually? I'm just asking, because if she's able to function sexually with other men ( as you describe) and it has served to sort of awaken her sexually - maybe the problem is not only that you find her boring- maybe she was bored sexually by you.
I'm not trying to be mean - I'm just saying that maybe the two of you are not a good fit.
But I'd be interested to know how one goes about getting involved sexually with someone they have no chemistry with. Isn't that kind of a prerequisite? Or do you just force yourself to pretend it exists until you can't pretend anymore?

You say good food is more important to you than sex- is she a good cook?
Joking- but really- if her companionship and good food were all you really needed, you wouldn't be looking elsewhere for anything else. And if you think that's going to be the state of things for years to come (that you'll use each other for what you're good to each other for and try to find sex elsewhere) - I'd look for the real thing now - before you hurt each other and any children you may have more than is absolutely necessary.

In other words, if you like her so much, maybe you could just go on picnics together or something and save your intimate selves for a person you appreciate in every way who also appreciates you in every way-ultimately this is the kinder thing to do for her- encouraging her to hold out for what she deserves instead of playing some weird game to bolster your otherwise nonexistent sexual desire for her.

There are differing levels of relationships you know. Just because you're not sure you want to marry the girl, doesn't mean you have to 'give up the relationship' (that is unless she's said that she wants a commitment or nothing at all).

STACH
there are some vague points i made it seems, my English could be better and clearer too

our relationship has become pretty stable and calm only during recent last months and so now i know i am ready to marry her - but not just based on a few months experience, but these last months seem to show the direction is very healthy and i can evaluate all great things she has done for all those years we have been together


AIDAN

But if you don't enjoy or excite each other sexually, I wouldn't get married. Fifty (or more) years is a long time to spend with someone you say you already find boring. I can't imagine she would want to be with someone who thought she was sexually boring...does she have self-esteem problems?


STACH
This is what my friends kept telling me - if sex doesn't work, don't marry.
But as I have tried to explain in my posts I found ways how to refresh her
for me. Did she find me boring, too? Of course, especially when I showed no interest in sex with her. So we were both boring each other. Now that she is more playful, it inspires me to be more playful and so we are both more playful, that's all, it is egg chicken problem. We depend on each other in this playfulness. But this playfulness, as I see it, needs to get some supply from outside. And not necessarilly from cheating on the partner/






AIDAN
Or have you neglected to tell her she bores you?



STACH
I told her and she broke up with me! So that was pretty simple. But later I went back to her and suggested we should find out if our relationship is really so shallow because I felt there was something deeper going on and found the sexual aspect as a mere bitter drop in pure water. I felt our relationship was essentially deep and wonderful, just didn't know how to make the sex thing work


AIDAN
And is there any possibility you bore her sexually? I'm just asking, because if she's able to function sexually with other men ( as you describe) and it has served to sort of awaken her sexually - maybe the problem is not only that you find her boring- maybe she was bored sexually by you.
I'm not trying to be mean - I'm just saying that maybe the two of you are not a good fit.
But I'd be interested to know how one goes about getting involved sexually with someone they have no chemistry with. Isn't that kind of a prerequisite? Or do you just force yourself to pretend it exists until you can't pretend anymore?


STACH
Yes, that is what happened - I forced myself to pretend until I gave up and told her there was none.



AIDAN
You say good food is more important to you than sex- is she a good cook?
Joking- but really- if her companionship and good food were all you really needed, you wouldn't be looking elsewhere for anything else.


STACH

I meant this - delicious, good food is something I can do without. Delicious sex is something I can do without. THis is not an emtpy exclamation - I really mostly don't eat anything delicious and all sex I have is almost always mediocre. And I can be happy anyway. But to keep things running, both my body and my relationship, I have to do my best to provide the body at least something healthy and essential, and provide our relationship at least something that has elements of good sex.




AIDAN

And if you think that's going to be the state of things for years to come (that you'll use each other for what you're good to each other for and try to find sex elsewhere) - I'd look for the real thing now - before you hurt each other and any children you may have more than is absolutely necessary.

In other words, if you like her so much, maybe you could just go on picnics together or something and save your intimate selves for a person you appreciate in every way who also appreciates you in every way-ultimately this is the kinder thing to do for her- encouraging her to hold out for what she deserves instead of playing some weird game to bolster your otherwise nonexistent sexual desire for her.

i want to add a couple of comments as the original post might be considered two wild and irresponsible hence immoral and that would be a shame, a lost
chance here to open a serious debate

firstly, i noticed that a regular woman, a woman, just a woman - her natural
feature will be, unless she is pretty old, that she will expect some sexual activity from her partner and if she does not get this activity, if there is no interest in her in terms of sex, she will not be happy,
Yes, because it's an insult to her feminity and desireability. It's kind of like you're saying, 'You've got a great personality - but I don't desire you.' That's not what you say to someone you want to marry- that's what you say to a friend.

but young people usually cannot tolerate if there is no romance in the relationship - and if there is no sexual interest it means no romance to them and no romance to them means essentially no love
I wouldn't assume that's true just for young people Stach. That's why I was confused as to how you got together in the first place, as sexual partners ,if there was no chemistry. I can't even really picture touching someone unless I felt the urge or desire to- much less having sex with him.
i believe in love where romance is not important and i believe in love that does not depend on sexual life
I do too - but that's called friendship, not marriage.

but such belief requires two, not just one
so after some relationships full of scenes and hysteria no matter whose fault it was, i gave up the idealistic notion that i would partner a woman, mature and independent where sex would be a game for children, not for adult people and decided to respect, cherish sex as necessary part of a healthy relationship
so of course i wanted to know how to make myself interested in my gf
sexually,
See this is the part that I find problematic. You shouldn't have to make yourself interested in her- it should just happen. and so i tried to figure out what kind of woman is sexy to me
and found out that a woman that is not passively sitting at home and waiting for me and saying I love you all the time, such a woman, who seems independent and free and has no limits is sexy and attractive
so she doesn't embody these characteristics for you unless she's coming on to other men?
it is a woman that a man wants to conquer and similarly, women are
attracted to men who seem hard to get
I don't get this whole conquering idea- I never thought of it as any contest. To me it's just an expression that you've found what you were looking for in someone else.
it seems this kind of game cannot be part of a serious, mature relationship, but sex is something we do because it is primitive and we are partly primitive - we don t have sex because it is moral and sophisticated but to understand sex and make it healthy, working part of our lives is to
see sex as something sophisticated and highly moral
Or, as my mother taught me, you can look at it as a very special gift that you only want to give to someone who is very special to you. And that doesn't include friends- or maybe even people you know you couldn't love. It does include a component of desire that makes it different from the love you have for everyone else in your life.
opposite sides - immoral and primitive, it is an act of beast,
but for human beings it is also something incredibly sophisticated, complicated and highly moral as it helps to maintain happy families, provide emotional stability to children as children are happy when their parents are happy - don't tell me i;ve been there and you probably too

so we need to find a way how to understand sex and how to employ sex so that it be something that supports our relationship, not something that destroys our relationships

it is too simplistic to look at sex as something that has to be kept under the lid of a single relationship - it is the popular Christian notion of a moral family - but to keep sex under the lid of a single family means to prevent the sex from getting fresh air from outside - such sex will always be reduced to boredom - and if it is not reduced to boredom, although the couple can deal without impulses from outside or provoke impulses outside, i think it is only possible if the couple has really wild and maybe perverted sexual fantasy - but to have wild sexual fantasies, no matter how faithful you are, means to be pretty sexually open minded

as i found my own partner too boring to provide good sex, i realized that
it is necessary to encourage her to be a bit "immoral" and flirt with others and other things - and she definitely enjoyed that and as her confidence went up, her sexiness went up alongside - what else is new - and i don't know what is immoral about a couple whose "immoral" attitude and behavior leads to a steady, peaceful, joyful, happy, emotionally fulfilling
environment that should be a required basis for starting a family and raising children

to be immoral here means to be highly moral and responsible and only now I am not afraid to have children as i would like my children to grow up in the middle of a happy family and not two grumpy hysterical parents who
don't sleep with each other or force each other to sleep with each other
or pretending they are so above sex and only care about ideals

no, sex has to be taken seriously, totally, and the article at yahoo not only
suggest things that don't work but encourages people to deepen their frustration and hunger for real sex as they will be locked in the moral dark closets of absolutely faithful relationships that only exist in dreams of stupid journalists or psychologists or televangelists