Sears water softeners...convince me either way

I prefer the 2510 SE.

ever hear of Masters? one very long standing plumbing place i called said that's the brand they use and i said i'd stop by after work to learn more. It's funny that i got their number out of the 2002 book i had laying around. I then noticed the one other company i was gonna call wasnt even in existence back then. So i guess i need to try to make sure if i go local that they will be around

Most plumbers know little about water treatment and don't really want to. Other than hooking up a softener most plumbers are no help after the sale.

You already found your best choice... the water treatment professional in Ephrata.

They are featuring the Fleck 9xxx twin resin tank model on their web site but they should offer all the Fleck models available.

You should give them an opportunity to inspect your house, test your water, and make a recommendation... they want to do it at no charge.

ok well i assume they must have single tanks.I dont have room for two.

May give em a call then.

the other place is plumbing and heating and they have a real store you can go in and buy stuff. I havent been in since i was a kid but was thinking since they are close vs 45 min away, that any future issues will be cheaper for me to solve given the distance/trip charge thing etc

how about the culligan medallist? Was 1400 estimate when i called them last week...still pretty high but just curious your opinion

Not if they don't understand water treatment and have to rely on long distance tech support to try to resolve your problem.

Plumbers make way more money plumbing than doing water treatment and are well aware of that fact. There must be plumbers that are exceptions who are competent at water treatment but I have never met one. In fact, many self-proclaimed water treatment professionals aren't and dismiss water treatment certifications because they don't have them .

You stand a better chance of not needing service and getting the right equipment to meet your needs if you deal with a water treatment professional.

As far as the room you have available, think that's why the pros in Ephrata want to inspect your house? They want to do the job right and they'll inspect the installation site and test your water for FREE!

What more do you want? Even if you choose to buy from Sears after that you'll know a lot more than you know now.

Master Water Conditioning is a Reading PA company that markets their Autotrol based equipment through plumbing and pump supply houses. Autotrol is now being called GE because GE bought Osmonics a few years after Osmonics bought Autotrol years before. The Logix is a timer, not a control valve. It allows only three salt dose settings that can not be changed. It is used on the Autotrol 255 predominantly, a 3/4" valve. The Performa is a 1" valve. Both have 6-7 flapper valves, an inexpensive and sometimes troublesome design.

They also sell the Clack line of control valves.

Here are some suppliers (note they are not dealers) in your area that sell Clack.

CHARGER WATER; Pottstown, PA @ 610.970.7384
JAYSON SOFT WATER; Union, NJ @ 908.688.1111
LANCASTER PUMP; Lancaster, PA @ 717.397.3521
MASTER WATER; Pottstown, PA @ 610.323.8358

If you buy industry standard non proprietary equipment, it doesn't matter how long the dealer has been in business or if he's out of business when you need a part because you can buy parts from many web sites across the US and service from many local dealers and a very few plumbers or well drillers.

For confined space requirements, I sell an 11" x 11" brine tank, and a two tank type softener up to a 2.0 cuft can fit in a space 23" x 18" (out from the wall). You may not need a 2.0 cuft. If you turn the softener sideways, you can fit most any size in a very small space as long as you have proper head room.

well sounds like i'd really be supporting a local company then if they are in Reading I read what you said about the autotrol. And about the Clack. does that mean i can get a master brand but put a clack on it?

The Master name is a brand name, the owners buy component parts, a control valve, tanks, resin, and assemble them into a softener then put the Master name on the softener or filter etc.. I've told you what control valves they sell. They do the same as I and most independent dealers do but we don't sell wholesale to supply houses, we sell to you, the homeowner.

The same goes for Charger and Jayson (wholesale suppliers). Martin etc. are dealers.

well I definitely like the idea of local guys building and servicing this stuff. I don't think it gets better than that (assuming they are cheaper than culligan of course)

i should stop reading the internet

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=281769

Master Water Conditioning Corp. Unresponsive to Customer Needs

There's nothing wrong with reading the internet as a supplement to actual experience.

Call the people in Ephrata. They will come and inspect your home and test your water. They will make their recommendations based on those findings and do it for FREE.

You'll get a chance to find out how they act, what they know, and how they treat you. They will be doing the install and setup. They will be providing the warranty and after sale service. You can check the local BBB for references.

After that, go back on the internet and at least you'll have something you experienced to discuss intelligently.

Whether lazy or just leery of shopping you sell yourself short. You put more credence in the opinions of strangers with keyboards than you are willing to actually do the homework you need to do to get what you need and want.

Unless you're willing to put in some time... just pay your money and take your chances... you might as well send your money to a stranger selling water treatment on the internet or go to Sears and just hope.

well the master i'd most likely get is 1K plus installation. However i'm hesitant to get it there as he had no clue what i meant when i asked what brand valve it had. I looked on the back to see myself.

off to do more research

Master buys component parts from the part manufacturers as their distributor OR from other distributors. Manufacturers are Clack, Fleck, GE/Autotrol, the resin and tank manufacturers or various manufacturer distributors.

I buy from the same distributors, dealers can not buy from the component part manufacturers.

Then Master assembles the softener or filter and sell/ship them to the plumbing/pump supply houses they market to. The supply house then sells it to the plumbers and well drillers and pump guys that sell it to the consumer; their dealer but they call them 'contractors'.

The "dealer" is responsible for giving their customer the manual and all other information necessary. Note this is a local dealer type sale, and if the customer doesn't get satisfaction, its the dealers' fault, not the distributor's or the supply house they sell to.

On average plumbers are pretty bad about these things, and only a few plumbers will be involved in water treatment sales. My advice is to go with a local or online water treatment dealer, usually water treatment is our only business.

On average, supply houses aren't much better than their 'contractor' plumber or well driller. Mostly that's because they usually do water treatment as a side line and in this case rely heavily on Master. Master has been doing this for at least 40 years and are pretty good at it but... they do not want to hear from anyone other than their customer, the supply house.

Master and the part manufacturers are not set up for their distributors' dealers or the dealers' customers to contact them. The whole industry is that way. My suppliers and the component manufacturers do not want to hear from my customer and the manufacturer doesn't want to hear from me. I am supposed to know what I'm doing and lean on my suppliers and take advantage of the schooling they and the manufacturers provide.

You are relying on information given to you by guys here and at that link that really do not know this industry very well. One is a customer of mine and another is a Kinetico salesman. The one giving the Master contact info is a softener owner. Another here is maybe a local and online dealer but doesn't sell what he says is the best equipment and says he is an installer as he was for Rainsoft for 20 years... None of the first three are a dealer or distributor or employee of a part manufacturer....

I have spoken to most component part manufacturers, Master and their field guys and supply houses as a local and online independent dealer for other distributors than Master for 21 years. I could call any of them and they would at least listen to me and help me depending on my approach and how I frame the question but they don't like the contact.

I've been donating my time answering posts like this for what will be 11 years the 2nd of next Jan and can tell you that the internet is full of good advice like... if you want to be dependent on a dealer for service, buy local. If you want to be independent and self sufficient then buy online.

As to what softener... IMO the best is a correctly sized for your peak demand SFR requirement based on your family size and number of bathrooms and type of fixtures, and your water quality; using a Clack WS-1 control valve.

You are relying on information given to you by a guy that says he knows something about water treatment,
yet he does not install or service water systems. This same guy spends a vast majority of his time badmouthing
everybody else and every other brand. Telling lies and spreading slander are his favorite methods to steer the gullible.

This goes against industry code of ethics and is just bad business.


Buyer beware.

Hate to jump in with this info, but I bought a Sears Hi-Capacity 80 Plus softener in 1991 (yes, that's 17+ years ago) to use with my well system and it has worked very well since. Only tonight did I diagnose a bad face plate (control board) for $250. I'm thinking of going with their Model 300 despite the negatives I read on here. Any comments?

well it's good to hear a positive review of sears. I know little about the units but i had figured any problems that would have come could be paid for by the 1-2K i'd save over a proprietary unit. I hope you have just as good luck as the old one. Some people on here say sears is just a no frills ecowater but i have no clue if that is true.

i decided on a local water guy's home built unit and it's being put in next week. fleck 5600 valve so i hope it lasts just as long as my failed culligan.

how hard is your water? Mine's 24 and he was kinda surprised so high but i guess our local twp source is deep or whatever