Pro Gun arguments go something like this :

The problem isn't that we don't have enough firearm laws. The problem is that the existing laws aren't being enforced.

Well Chumly, my friend, by your logic we need a government to watch over us every second of the day, and to make every decision for us, because people are incapable of living their own lives.

todays news;
Two missionaries-in-training were killed early today and two more were wounded when a gunman burst into a residence hall at the Youth With a Mission center in the Denver suburb of Arvada, the police said.

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More people carrying guns is what we need...

I suspect when the details are known, the jerk(s) in Colorado will be a former convict or a former mental patient, and not legally entitled to own a firearm.

Just like the jerk in Nebraska wasn't legally entitled to own a firearm.

Just like the jerk at Virginia Tech wasn't legally entitled to own a firearm.

The problem isn't that we don't have enough firearm laws.

The problem is that the existing laws aren't being enforced.

In such circumstances, survival depends upon swift and successful counterattack.
In such circumstances defensive gunnery is the Fountain of Life.

Chumly, I'm afraid sophistry and word games don't make a very convincing argument.

Your argument regarding nuclear weapons is invalid, because the Constitution does not guarantee the right to possess nuclear weapons. The Constitution does guarantee the right to bear arms.

If guns must be outlawed because we cannot trust criminals not to misuse them, then why stop there?

Why not ban cars, because we cannot trust drunks not to drive and kill people?

Or instead, why don't we enforce the laws, and hold people accountable for their actions?

Jim wrote:

Well Chumly, my friend, by your logic we need a government to watch over us every second of the day, and to make every decision for us, because people are incapable of living their own lives.

False.

You make the error of the Straw Man Logical Fallacy, thus you deliberately misrepresent and misleadingly overstate my position. I never said any such thing that "we need a government to watch over us every second of the day, and to make every decision for us, because people are incapable of living their own lives".

You also make the error of the logical fallacy called "Non Causa Pro Caus" by inferring a false causal relation thus your claim also violates the canons of good reasoning about causation.

Quote:

In such circumstances, survival depends upon swift and successful counterattack.
In such circumstances defensive gunnery is the Fountain of Life.

While I do not nessecarily agree with your opinion,
even though I must admit that you have a point,
I would like to commend you on your phrasing.

I find it very humorous.

The problem with guns is that it takes very little skill.

Back in the days, if you wanted to kill someone you'd have to do it with a sword or a bow,
or with your bare hands. Nowadays you just have to pull a trigger.

The point is that learning the skill needed to wield bow or sword takes dicipline.
It creates a dynamic system in which those who are most skilled
tend to be those who are most balanced of mind and body.
A sort of justice is formed which is lost to us today,
since the point and click approach is so easy even an ape could do it.

I was simply pointing out the self fullfilling / self reinforcing nature of the pro gun argument :wink:

Do you find it to be innacurate in any way?

Quote:

David, it was mostly your arguments that lead me to see
the self reinforcing aspects of the pro gun arguments.

Those are NOT our arguments.
Thay r YOUR fony straw man rip down ideas.

Quote:

As you quoted me...how about answering the question.
Do you find it to be inaccurate in any way?

Yes, of course.
Legality has nothing to do with whether criminals will arm
themselves, in that criminals have no interest in obeying laws.
Only future victims who care more about obeying laws
than thay do about their own survival,
and that of their family, are interested in that.

If criminals are willing to ignore the laws against ROBBERY;
if criminals are willing to disregard the laws against MURDER,
HOW can we convince them to OBEY "gun control" laws ?

Explain that to me ?

David

Quote:

In such circumstances, survival depends upon swift and successful counterattack.
In such circumstances defensive gunnery is the Fountain of Life.

While I do not nessecarily agree with your opinion, even though I must admit that you have a point, I would like to commend you on your phrasing. I find it very humorous.

Those are NOT our arguments.
Thay r YOUR fony straw man rip down ideas.