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US says it has right to kidnap British (foreign) citizens

 
 
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 12:15 pm
Quote:
From The Sunday Times
December 2, 2007

US says it has right to kidnap British citizens
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 914 • Replies: 13
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contrex
 
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Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 12:58 pm
The US says it has the right to try foreigners who have been rendered within its jurisdiction. The Times used quote marks around the word "kidnap", which you omitted to do.

Nevertheless, it is deeply disturbing, and (yet) another reason to fear and distrust America.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 12:59 pm
contrex wrote:
The Times used quote marks around the word "kidnap", which you omitted to do.


Not in the headline. (And within the quoted taxt.)
Quote:
From The Sunday Times
December 2, 2007

US says it has right to kidnap British citizens
David Leppard

AMERICA has told Britain that it can "kidnap" British citizens if they are wanted for crimes in the United States.

A senior lawyer for the American government has told the Court of Appeal in London that kidnapping foreign citizens is permissible under American law because the US Supreme Court has sanctioned it.

Neither in the printed nor the online edition.
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contrex
 
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Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:40 pm
Well, that's the Murdoch press for you. It is a deeply disturbing story, is it not?
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:43 pm
It disturbs me more that I was said to have falsified a source.
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contrex
 
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Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:51 pm
I apologise for that; I have been over on alt.english.usage, and I must have got myself into hyper-picky mood. Please forgive me!

I think if we wanted to do anything about this, it'd have to be done at EU level. The US may be able to push the UK around, but the EU as a whole has a pretty strong record on dealing with human rights issues and the US CANNOT afford to piss off the whole EU. If EU citizens were being kidnapped consistently and the EU were to declare full sanctions against the US, the US would lose out very heavily, since the EU has a massive economy and is a big trading partner with the US. By itself, the UK couldn't do very much.

[irony]
I don't have any problem with the US government doing this, as long as they accept other governments doing it too: if you name your teddy bear Muhammad, the Sudanese government should be able to come and kidnap you from your home in Iowa to administer 40 lashes, or death, or whatever they decide is the proper punishment for such a horrible transgression.
[/irony]

One can only hope the next administration of the US has some basic respect for its allies. For a government paranoid about losing sovereignty to international bodies it certainly pays very little respect to other sovereign nations.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 02:00 pm
Actually no need really to apologize; it's fine :wink:

They - the USA - really seem (sic! there's only this source, I suppose, until now) to have this idea.

Which is .... well, the secret services of the "commies" did so. And Mossad is said to have done similar.
But at least they offically didn't announce it.

Might be when you bring democracy and freedom and human rights and etc to other countries, you can do it openly.
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Sglass
 
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Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 02:02 pm
This is a human rights violation of the highest order, that the US has given itself sanction for legal kidnapping. We are the Ugly Americans.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 02:11 pm
I assume they then will be very supportive when other governments kidnap American citizens thought to have committed crimes?
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vikorr
 
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Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 06:40 am
No no, what they are saying is 'If we want to try a foreigner, and you kidnap him (for us) from his country and get away with it, then we will try him here"

What other people do outside of the US isn't the US' responsibility, so don't try and kidnap US citizens.

...at least, I'd bet a dollar that's the US line :wink:

Of course the CIA is another story altogether.
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joefromchicago
 
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Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 09:27 am
Here is the supreme court opinion in US v. Alvarez-Machain that discusses the US position on abducting criminal suspects from foreign countries.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 09:35 am
Thanks, joe, for that link!
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 09:52 am
You asked me about this on another thread walter

Walter wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:

The British Government should deliver an ultimatum to the Sudanese Govt. that unless Ms Gibbons is released unharmed within 36 hours all diplomatic and economic/trade functions with Sudan will cease. And the EU should back it.

If Gibbons is harmed in anyway, we will sequestrate any Sudanese assets in UK, arrest and imprison Sudanese diplomatic staff, and expell all Sudanese nationals.

And if it comes to it declare war.



I honestly wonder about your reaction re the recent announcement that the US has the right to kidnap any British citizen.



Oh, sorry. They are no idiotic Islamists. They can do so.


First, as you probably realise, I wasnt being absolutely serious in advocating war with Sudan, if for no other reason that they would probably win.

Second, if the American government thinks its ok to kidnap foreign citizens it reduces American law to the status of the limb choppers and stoners in God-forsaken places like Sudan.
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Endymion
 
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Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2007 08:53 pm
A worm's eye view

Guardian Unlimited
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