The american way.

Sad but true in many ways and not just America.

I think of greed and apathy as the worst of human diseases. You see the effects in every society on some level. These two negatives have been the catalysts for the greatest miseries of the world.

I find people who really crave money and power are those that are the most likely to be dishonest and encourage destruction. Would you really want to President of a country? Would you want to be the CEO of an oil company? How about making big bucks by suppling a military with weapons? Most jobs that will make you rich and powerful will do more harm than good in the world. Sure you can invent a medical device that saves lives or write a best seller to become rich, but if you want it "all" you usually have to compromise on the humanity aspect.

I think people have to find their own moral compass. I think Bush and Cheney sleep very well at night, as does Putin, Kim Jong Il, and dozens of other questionable leaders. I think people like Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr. and Jesus spent most of their nights staring at the ceiling worrying about others, it's hard to be compassionate, honest and powerful at the same time- but not impossible. Although it often leads to assassination.

There are people who will send other people's children to war if they think they can personally profit from it. There are people that will destroy every acre of beauty to make a buck. You have a choice in America to support that club or speak out against it - chose the latter.

I dont know what else to say, I think you said it all for me, the only thing I can say is that I know exactly what you are talking about, and I live in the United Kingdom.

So then I guess it isn't the American way, but the way of the world.

Ach, people! Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

Do you know what really galls me though?
Right at this moment, we take with one hand from countries that have been exploited for the past couple of centuries, making profit from all sorts of business ventures in these countries, ventures that rarely profit the population there. And next, we give a percentage of the money we make as a 'sop' of our conscience.

Now, I know this is one-dimensional, and way too cynical as well. But this is one of the main issues I get depressed over every single time I think about it, and I tend to project this as bleakly as my mindset allows me to.
Capitalism? Its surprising how close the words money and morals are in the vocabulary. In capitalism, even that small distance disappears. Money IS the moral, and that is a crying shame.

i can barely even read the news anymore, its so, just so idiotic.

Its almost like governments exist, merely to engage in war with other governments. I mean look at what bush has done, he has destroyed the fabric of "american" society worse than any criminals, our economy is toast, and its all for no reason.

Honestly i dont think bush knows what he is doing at all. hes either a puppet or a complete and utter moron.

But then is it really bush sending us to war? or is it our need to get up every day and drive our cars?

I was thinking about what happens when oils go bye-bye, i mean everything we have depends on oil being supplied to us constantly. it goes, there goes trucking for one, oh wait our groveries stores rely on trucking, as do all our stores..

American citizens in general i believe do not have any self-reliance, if our stores shut down, how do we eat? if our water pumps shut down how do we drink? i myself am trying to start an organic and hydro garden, but im not well to do, how do i do that in an apartment? its just a really , yeah dumb situation we have put ourselves in.

its like we dug our selves a hole, and bush is just digging it deeper.

Actually, its more like oil is cocaine, when we werent addicted we were fine,after having it for so long we got addicted. but now that we are running out we are gonna go through a HUGE come-down.

The worst part is alone we can't fight society and the government in tandem, its either stupidty or ignorance but it is keeping us from making real progress, jesus i just remembered the pharma industry, say no to stem cells! they will lower our profits!!!!

i wish i could escape all this techno addiction, tv is fine, cell phones are fine, but having to dedicate my life to all this materealism? having to go day after day breathing in toxins, seeing nothing but artificial human constructs, living in the filth of cities. its disgusting it really is.

our food is poisoned, our water has flouride and chlorine in it, i mean jesus christ, can you imagine if we werent living in toxic waste our entire lives? how long would we live then? then i read they are trying to mandate flouridating bottled waters too?

its like people with power wont ever try to better society, its like they will take and take and take until they are violently overthrown to stop them.

So what do you propose as an alternative to "the American way"?

You complain that nobody does anything to make it better.

You complain about fluoride in the water.

You do realize, don't you, that fluordated water is one of the most successful, least expensive public health campaigns ever initiated by the US government.

The people who started Microsoft and Google weren't "lucky". They worked their asses off. They took huge risks. And, it should be noted, that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation does amazing work.

I'll bet that most people never had to lie, cheat and steal to get a job or keep a job. I never did.

ogionik seemed to propose that we place money over people in importance.

i think he was suggesting the opposite of that? i didn't think anyone was suggesting that politics could fix this, it's a cultural problem as i see it. once again, quinn's takers and leavers come to mind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_%28novel%29

http://www.ishmael.com/Education/Writings/littletrain.shtml

Hydroponics is not organic, it's growing plants in chemicals. If you want to promote a healthy environment buy organic and buy local (any farmer's market in your town?).



Stem cells are not a profit issue, it's a science vs. religion issue. The drug companies certainly like their profits, but this is not the problem here.



I've lived without TV, computers and phones- I don't think it made a better person, but I did get more sleep. Don't like the environment? Make the right choices - avoid buying plastic, fast food and crap that will one day end up in a garage sale or a land fill. Lots of ways to use less oil.Tons of websites can tell you how to live a cleaner life. Don't like the urban life - move- get job skills that are valuable anywhere.



Vote with your head AND your wallet. What you buy determines what will exist. Who you vote for needs to know what you think. Write to your congressman and senator, but make sure you have your facts together first so they will take you seriously.

Miss witch.

I see you are a believer in the 'You can make a difference' approach?
It might be so, I cannot tell. But certainly, if you alone follow a path like that (and not many will willingly condone it), what good does it do? Give you some peace of mind?
Changes are inseperably linked to majorities in a democracy. The power of the individual means quite little (unless that individual happens to have a powerful political position... obviously... but in the average democracy, that is reserverd for like 0.01% (probably less) of a countries inhabitants.
A change needs to occur. I'll grant you that positive signals are flaring up world wide, but so far, it seems that the majority of humankind simply close their eyes and continue their great lemming migration, to the edge of the abyss and beyond.
As you probably can tell, I am no longer a true believer. I have some hope left (thankfully), but I suspect I'll wind up watching and joining this inescapable trek of humanity to it's own destruction. I'm just curious if there will be anybody left at some point who can say: "This is where we made the mistake. This is where it all went wrong. We should never do that again." And one of my hopes is that the rest of humanity, no matter how diminshed it is, will actually LISTEN and FOLLOW this individual.

najmelliw, I know I have made a positive different in this world. I expect no reward, as I believe in no God. Helping others and living according to my personal morality has certainly made my life better. I pretty much live in the "now". As someone who is involved in the field of Ecology, I'm aware that the domino has fallen and we are probably on our way to extinction- but I lose no sleep over it. I really don't care if someone gets to stay around and examine where we went wrong. Today is good, maybe tomorrow will not be so. I'm not going to walk around looking like a kicked dog because of it. Overall, I live a happy, productive existence full of loving family, friends, animals and plants that all bring me joy. If I can help someone else to experience a little happiness, I am further enriched. I lose nothing by choosing a positive existence and I think I gain much.

You are welcome to your misery and sad reflections najmelliw, you seem content with it. Enjoy you half glass of bitters.

Just a note on Fluridated water. Having known people who have lived all their lives in a town with flurodated water, It doesn't seem to have any negative health effects, and it has proven positive effects on dental health.

I think everyone has a valid point.. just depends on what you do with it.

But I know what the original poster is talking about. I feel like I walk around in a conspiracy theory all the time. Government vs. self. Especially pharmaceuticals. There are cures out there that aren't in use for (imo) profit to these companies. For shame.

Rest assured I won't enjoy that glass. I don't even look at it. Happiness is found in all kinds of things, and just because I fail to see hope in this aspect of our lives, that doesn't mean I can't find it in other aspects.

An opinion was asked about the 'american/european/modern western world' way of living. I provided my perspective, and I fully agree it is grim enough to make a miser weep. I adressed your opinion, because it's obviously well thought through, rational, and delivered in a sensible tone, rather then a diatribe. I tried to answer in a similar veneer, but I fear you may have miscontstrued this as a personal attack. It's not.
I do not agree with you, but I don't think I know better. Actually, I passionately hope you have the right of it, and I am wrong. And since I freely admit that I have a couple of nuts and bolts loose in my intellect (being depressive all the time and all), I very well might be wrong.

MY goal is to find joy in the joy of others I know. To a small extent (since I do not know any of you personally), I also get joy out of your sensible and life affirming answer to my post. If what I said is the truth of it, and we are lemmings running towards the edge of the abyss... who says those lemmings can't be happy? I never did.

To make a long post as short as possible... My apologies if I offended. It was not intended to do so.

Well, as the Cold War demonstrated, the three ideas that conquered the world are peace, democracy, and the free market system. They have no viable opposition, and many states (countries, or nations in the Westphalian sense) prescribe the same, or at the very least pay tribute to their success.

Why is the USA the way it is? This stems from 1945, where the USA stepped in to fill the vacuum left by the waning British Empire and the collapsed European order to provide a counter-weight to Stalin and his Red Army. Realist and liberal grand strategies (the mainstream of American foreign policy since the close of World War Two), though philosophically antagonistic, have created the modern international order and work remarkably well together. And notwithstanding the inherent problems of capitalist systems- or those within the states that adhere and operate under this philosophy- the American construction of the modern tripartite trading structure (America, Europe, and East Asia) has created the most stable and prosperous international order in history. New ideas emanating from the Bush (II) admin are unsettling, and many experts fear that the order the USA built may be at risk. The USA appointed itself as the World Governor.

Injustice is everywhere- this is a fact. The American system is far from perfect, to say the least, though please do not be deterred from being just and honest. Even many elders in the Middle East recall the time when Americans were just that- moral and aggressive in combating injustice.

the hard part about voting for stuff is that when the people in power dont want what the majority wants (bush) they just rig the system in their favor.(corruption of the voting machines)

now we are back at violently overthrowing them.

But hey, as a matter of fact through their own corruption they inevitably create their own demise now that i look at it.

This is Philosophy?

Try the Political Forum.

oh i dunno, there ought to be more philosophy in politics but there isn't.

since philosophy has no place in a political forum, and this thread has some philosophy, this might be the ideal place. for partisan pseudopolitical garbage like we have in the states, the politics forum is ideal- i thought this thread transcended that a bit, doesn't that qualify as philosophy here? after all, it's purely hypothetical