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EU seeks personal data of American citizens

 
 
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 04:52 am
Quote:
E.U. Seeks Data on American Passengers
Airlines Would Report Personal Details of Europe-Bound Travelers


By Ellen Nakashima
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 4, 2007; Page A18

American travelers' personal data would for the first time be exported to all European Union states by airline carriers flying to Europe under a proposal to be announced this week.

The data, including names, telephone numbers, credit card information and travel itinerary, would be sent to E.U. member states so they could assess passenger risk for counterterrorism purposes, according to a draft copy obtained by The Washington Post. The European Commission proposal would allow the data to be kept for 13 years or longer if used in criminal investigations and intelligence operations. It would cover all passengers flying into and out of Europe, not just Americans.

Airlines already share data with U.S. authorities on passengers entering the United States. A handful of countries, including Canada and Australia, have similar laws. The European proposal was apparently modeled after an agreement signed in July between the United States and Europe dealing with passenger data from European flights entering and leaving the United States.

Under the proposal by Franco Frattini, European commissioner for freedom, security and justice, airlines or computerized reservation systems would send at least 19 pieces of data on each passenger to data-analysis units set up by each state. The data fields also would include e-mail addresses, names of accompanying passengers and open ones for such special requests as meals or medical service.

Under the proposal, no personal data that could reveal race, ethnicity, political opinions, religion, trade union membership or health or sex-life information could be transmitted. Any such data that was shared would have to be deleted immediately by the data-analyzing units, the proposal says.

The proposal must be approved by all 27 E.U. states to become a Europe-wide law, though individual states could introduce their own programs. It would affect about 30 million people who fly from North America to Europe each year.

The move is part of an effort to combat terrorism by sharing information globally, and it is fueling concerns of loss of privacy and control over personal data.

"It almost becomes an arms race with one country adopting a data-gathering system without reflecting on whether or not the system is necessary," said Allison Knight, staff counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center.

Frattini has made clear that he believes a policy requiring Passenger Name Record data from airlines would be beneficial to combating terrorism in light of terror attacks in Madrid and London.

"The Union is at least as much a potential target of a terrorist attack as the United States, and the use and analysis of passenger name records is an important law enforcement tool to protect our citizens," Frattini told the European Parliament in September.

The U.S. is "definitely open to the idea," Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Laura Keehner said. "It would be fair of the Europeans to ask the same information of us that we're asking of them. We are open to finding ways to make our respective homelands secure."

The U.S.-E.U. pact was opposed by civil libertarians and liberal politicians, many of whom have said they do not favor an E.U. equivalent. But some have suggested retaliating with a mirror policy.

Sophie in 't Veld, a member of Parliament from the Netherlands, said Frattini's proposal would "undermine the credibility" of the E.U., which criticized the E.U.-U.S. pact. "We still do not have sufficient evidence of how effective the use of these data are in the fight against terrorists," she said.

The European countries' units would analyze the data to identify people and their associates who may be involved in terrorism or organized crime. It would also create and update "risk indicators" for assessing them and provide intelligence on travel patterns and other trends relating to terrorist offenses and organized crime, according to the proposal. The data could be used in criminal investigations and prosecutions.

James Harrison, a Sacramento attorney and director of the Identity Project, a privacy organization, said that the prospect of analyzing the data to create risk assessments is "alarming."

"Congress forbids the U.S. from conducting algorithms on passenger data domestically," he said, referring to a ban on testing algorithms assigning risk to passengers not on government watch lists. "That is exactly what they are talking about here."

E.U. officials said that all non-Europeans would be protected under the scheme by European states' data-protection laws, while U.S. privacy laws apply only to U.S. citizens. In the case of passenger data, the United States has extended administrative Privacy Act protections to non-U.S. citizens. The Department of Homeland Security also has an online redress site open to all.

But, in 't Veld said, "Even if there were 27 excellent data protection schemes, if you are an American citizen, and travel around Europe for a month, who will you turn to? Ask yourself: How good is your Hungarian?"

Another difference between the U.S.-E.U. pact and the European proposal deals with sensitive information such as religion, sexual orientation and union membership. Under the U.S.-E.U. deal, that information can be used in exceptional cases, "where the life of a data subject or of others could be imperiled or seriously impaired."
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 04:56 am
<LINK> to the AGREEMENT between the European Union and the United States of America on the processing and transfer of passenger name record (PNR) data by air carriers to the United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 07:00 pm
The upside to this, from a U.S. perspective, is that perhaps enough U.S. citizens would then choose to vacation in the U.S., and that would lessen the flow of U.S. dollars overseas.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 08:01 pm
what's good for the goose is good for the gander - so i've been told :wink: !
btw canadian and other airlines flying OVER the U.S. , such as to to the caribbean and south-america , have to submit all passenger data to the U.S. authorities .
canada has now asked the U.S. airlines to submit passenger data for U.S. planes flying over canada , example : polar routes to russia and scandinavia .
what's good for the goose ... :wink:
hbg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2007 12:30 am
Foofie wrote:
The upside to this, from a U.S. perspective, is that perhaps enough U.S. citizens would then choose to vacation in the U.S., and that would lessen the flow of U.S. dollars overseas.


Yes, that's what was thought when the USA started this procedure, too - the other way around, from the US tourist boards' of view.
0 Replies
 
Bohne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2007 04:45 am
Funny, we were just discussing that the other day!
Without knowing, something like that was in the making!

I think it is great!
It annoys me no end, that I have to give up personal data (plus fingerprint) when I enter the US.
If it was not for family, I would NEVER go there!
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2007 04:54 am
Quote:
Under the proposal, no personal data that could reveal race, ethnicity, political opinions, religion, trade union membership or health or sex-life information could be transmitted. Any such data that was shared would have to be deleted immediately by the data-analyzing units, the proposal says.


Now this move is meant to prevent terrorism. If that is so, why are political opinions or ethnicity verboten, but credit card information is ok?
Does not make much sense to me. Is Europe as obnoxiously "politically correct" as the US????
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2007 06:51 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Is Europe as obnoxiously "politically correct" as the US????


No, not really. But we have stricter private data protection laws: race, ethnicity, political opinions, religion, trade union membership or health or sex-life information belong to them.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 10:08 am
Bohne wrote:
Funny, we were just discussing that the other day!
Without knowing, something like that was in the making!

I think it is great!
It annoys me no end, that I have to give up personal data (plus fingerprint) when I enter the US.
If it was not for family, I would NEVER go there!


Just my own observation, but tourists speaking German with tour books in hand, seem to stop at street corners to decide where to go next, while perusing their tour books. A small circle of them deciding which direction to go.

Tourists from other countries, with their respective tour books in hand (one can tell from the spelling on the book's cover) seem to stop mid-block (anywhere) to decide where to go.

It leaves me with the impression that the German character handles concerns in a methodical manner; first getting to the end of the block before the need is addressed as to which direction to go.

Also, there usually are four or more German tourists together. Other country's tourists can be in one's, two's, three's, etc. ?

If German tourists find they are blocking a pedestrian's passing, I find they move out of the way quickly. My experience with French tourists is they might ignore my polite, "excuse me." This never happens with German tourists.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 10:23 am
Foofie - Like in many other topics you posted around, you seem to be living in prejudices from the dark ages...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 11:02 am
EU's Justice & Security Commissioner Franco Frattini's new proposals, summarised, as of today:
- airlines flying between the EU and third countries, but not between EU member states, would be required to provide national monitoring centres with 19 pieces of information on each passenger.

Such information, to be shared between EU member states, would include the passenger's name, address, phone number and email address, and the number of the credit card or details of the travel agent used to make the booking.

Altogether less than 20 different data - as opposed to the 30+ the USA collected before we enter there.

EU unveils new 'anti-terror' measures raising fresh privacy concerns
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 11:19 am
Francis wrote:
Foofie - Like in many other topics you posted around, you seem to be living in prejudices from the dark ages...


Not prejudices (I am not pre-judging). These are my observations. This includes the observation that French tourists TEND to have a persona where I believe they want Americans around them to notice that they are SUCH BON VIVANTS! Based on the animated, exuberant conversation in public.

By the way, Sarkozy was stunning in flying in his own plane to take back the French humanitarian workers. See, I said something nice about the French (I do know though that his ancestry is Hungarian, with a Jewish grandfather, I believe).

Anyway, why do many people dislike Americans, and no one calls them prejudiced? Not the American government, but the people; their American traits. So, the French too must have traits based on their country's social ways? Not everyone can love the world. I believe, most Americans understand that. And I don't care for the French ways. Their continentalness. Their cuisine; too much sauce. Their love of wine. Their higher rate of smoking. Their maudlin romantic movies (A Man and a Woman). Their nasal sounding language.

It's quite acceptable to be disliked for such superficial reasons. No racist reasons. Purely superficial social traits. Have a hot dog (a contribution to the American cuisine from Germany).
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 11:29 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
EU's Justice & Security Commissioner Franco Frattini's new proposals, summarised, as of today:
- airlines flying between the EU and third countries, but not between EU member states, would be required to provide national monitoring centres with 19 pieces of information on each passenger.

Such information, to be shared between EU member states, would include the passenger's name, address, phone number and email address, and the number of the credit card or details of the travel agent used to make the booking.

Altogether less than 20 different data - as opposed to the 30+ the USA collected before we enter there.

EU unveils new 'anti-terror' measures raising fresh privacy concerns


I take your post in context of terrorists singling out the U.S. as a main adversary. I believe the U.S. has more reasons to be concerned. Thus, the greater amount of information.

Duh! Who's military is in the Middle East?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 11:29 am
Foofie wrote:
Have a hot dog (a contribution to the American cuisine from Germany).


The German immigrant who sold the first hot dog was an US-American citizen.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 11:30 am
Well, why doesn't this surprise me?

It's exactly what I was telling: living on prejudices.

Many of them from the past.

Only expanding...

Did I asked you to love the French?

Did I tell you that I hate the Americans?

Neither are true.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 11:31 am
Foofie wrote:
I take your post in context of terrorists singling out the U.S. as a main adversary. I believe the U.S. has more reasons to be concerned. Thus, the greater amount of information.


You may take my post in what context you want to do.

I posted it on my thread here because it's the topic I've chosen.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 11:44 am
Francis wrote:
Well, why doesn't this surprise me?

It's exactly what I was telling: living on prejudices.

Many of them from the past.

Only expanding...

Did I asked you to love the French?

Did I tell you that I hate the Americans?

Neither are true.


I did not accuse you of hating Americans. I just said many people in the world do.

I never said you asked me to love the French.

Your reply is misconstruing my post. I only pointed out I don't like the French social traits. There is nothing wrong with that. I am not racist against the French or anyone. I am not pre-judging (prejudiced). I just don't like the French social traits which are part of the French social mores.

The expression "bon vivant" wouldn't exist if it didn't have a specific correlation to the French social ways.

There is no reason to retort with a post. By allowing me to have the "last word," I will accept it as reparations for the French tourists that I've found annoying.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 11:51 am
There is at least one reason to reply to your post: I find you annoying and lacking, not only of knowledge, but also of some social skills.

Now, you can have the last word, as you asked so politely.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 11:57 am
Foofie wrote:

There is no reason to retort with a post. By allowing me to have the "last word," I will accept it as reparations for the French tourists that I've found annoying.


I don't think that your post should end this thread since it wasn't related at all to the subject.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2007 07:05 pm
Francis wrote:
There is at least one reason to reply to your post: I find you annoying and lacking, not only of knowledge, but also of some social skills.

Now, you can have the last word, as you asked so politely.


La palabra ultima!
0 Replies
 
 

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