Water filter & treatment system? H2OGuy?

amberbamber,

First of all, although your water is in need of quality treatment, it is very far from being the worst out there.

I agree with some of your contentions concerning H202 in that it is a powerful oxidizer and deodorant. But there should also be a valid need for such a system unless your desire to have quality water exceeds your need for the money. H202 systems can be complex and H202 is more costly than bleach for water treatment purposes. Its by-product is, of course, H20, which is great.

If you do decide to go with an RO, choice a quality one that gives superior service, warranty, ease of maintenance and low, over-all operating costs.

www.wqa.org
go to "Certification/education" on the left and then on a list to the right click "List of Certified Individuals" There you will see a list of members and their ranking. Cl means certified installer and CSR for sale rep and CCO, a new certification for Commercial applications. Do you see your guys name there?

Also there are hundreds of CWS VIs (our company has 3) so I am not sure why he said such a thing. Have him refer to this list for future reference.

What did he mean by " you might get away with only" an ERO 375? Without a softener or is that a lower end unit?

Well, I'll pause here and see if you have any more details or questions.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

What other companies have you called?

Hydrogen peroxide doesn't work well on certain types of problems such as IRB and other types of reducing bacteria.

My advice is to look at other than Ecowater equipment. You'll spend a lot less and get as good or better equipment that is not proprietary and thereby you'll have numerous dealers and parts sources to choose from when needed. Otherwise you're locked into that one Ecowater dealer for service and parts.

I suggest a local independent dealer or online dealer selling Clack or Fleck control valves. You can buy online and install it yourself or hire a plumber to install it and depending on the local dealers' prices, save hundreds to over a thousand dollars. And if you choose Clack and can wield a pair of pliers, you can totally rebuild it in less than 30 minutes saving service call charges.

The same Autotrol, Clack and Fleck valves sold for residential applications are what are used in commercial businesses like the local burger joint, car wash, motel, restaurant, etc..

With the exception of certain Kinetico models, the softeners you have mentioned so far are never sold for use in those types of establishments.

Commercial Kinetico equipment is not sold by your local Kinetico dealer, they have a separate distribution system for commercial equipment. Our resident Kinetico salesman here, Andy, can correct any errors I made in my description of that or explain exactly how that works.

As to WQA certification... IMO most of the people that are certified get certification so as to impress you with their supposed knowledge, or education. IMO it's a touchy feelly marketing thing like the diplomas and certificates etc. on the walls of your insurance agent, doctor, accountant, plumber or dentist offices. Truth be known, they aren't guaranteeing the outcome of your treatment. Or the person's character.

Another truth is that the vast majority of independent dealers are not certified. They have learned or been taught water treatment by a mentor type hands on actual field experience. That type dealer is driven more by pride in their abilities and satisfied customers than making a sale and dollar signs.

+1 . . .
Independent H2O dealers can be you best option - we tend to care about customer satisfaction above everything else.

_________________
Support your local H2O specialist ~ support your local economy.

FairTax.org

amberbamber,

I am not sure what 'commercial' applications you had alluded to. I must have missed that. I believe you said you have a "private well".

As far as Kinetico and commercial applications, any dealer is welcome and many do actually treat not only commercial applications but industrial as well. I personally have treated housing developments, restaurants, motel/hotel, camp grounds, and other public water systems under the watchful eye of the USEPA and other government agencies. So I am not sure why that was stated or where that information was secured. Curious!

My present company has two, full-time commercial-industrial personnel.

Likewise, the dealer takes all the responsibilities as well as profits from such enterprises.

Municipal equipment is often referred to Kinetico HQs for guidance and assistance, but no rule prevents dealers from entering the arena.

Hydrogen peroxide is a powerful oxidizer and is effective in water treatment. A little researc, which you seemed to have already done, is advisable.

http://www.h2o2-4u.com/

That is not to say there are other methods to sanitize/disinfect that have both advatanges and problems and or by-production that should be considered.

It is true that certification is no guarantee and that doctors in remote parts of the world with little more than basic education can be more than adequate for the tasks at hand. And, I have had personal experpiences with highly educated persons who performed very badly.

But to glibly discard all diplomas, certificates and awards as flim-flam is well, normally done by those who care little for qualifiying or have been unable to do so. And, IMO, he who does achieve a high success at one's own whit (and my hat's off to him), you may note that he does little to degrade those who wish to elevate their education, because he would be professional and accept his station in life as he would toward others in thiers.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Update
The water guy from Eco was here yesterday and did another test for sulfide gas I think which is what makes the water smell like eggs. There was none to very little and our water down stream of the softener has not had a smell since we got the softener up and running. The softener came with the house and if it ain't broke... It's either a Johnson controls softener or they just put it in.

Anyway, Eco said we don't really need an H2O2 system or chlorine system as far as they can tell. We are going with the R.O. ERO375 by Eco Water. $895 is the installed price. Yea, it's probably a good idea to go with a non proprietary system but after it's all said and done having a plumber install a different system wouldn't be much less I'd think.

Our plan is to just dump a cup of bleach in the brine tank of the softener on the 1st of the month and then a cup of h2o2 in on the 15th just to keep everything clean and sanitized. Plus some IronOut is needed to clean everything up it seems.
I think this is where we are going to start an see how it goes.
We also have a whole house water filter 12" tall by 5" dia. right next to the well head that can help a little I'd guess. Everyone says they don't help but the water guy has seen them work in some cases yet he is surprised that they do.

To date my water education now has me leaning towards an open chlorination system if I or anyone else needs more than a softener.
I love the idea of h2o2 but there are bacteria that grow in that system in the water heater and you will also have the slime in the toilet tanks.
It's my opinion that the O.C. system is the best for your water and your appliances just not the best for the environment.
Unless you want to get an h2o2 system and track down what the bacteria is that can survive in that system and what causes the slime in the toilet tanks and treat it with something other than chlorine I guess you'll have to use and open chlorine system as it seems to cause the fewest issues.

Other issues:
Andy - I read my original post again and see no mention of commercial application.

"Get away with an ERO375" meaning we wouldn't need to ad a sanitizing system like an h2o2 system.

I called a few other companies but I don't remember which ones off hand, sorry. : (

Thanks for all the info!!! : )

Strange... I can't find on the Kinetico web site what I just found a week or so ago. Maybe I didn't spend enough time now but, it was a list of approved or whatever companies around the country that distribute Kinetico equipment. I see they say their dealers do sell commercial equipment.

So on that point I stand corrected.

I see that a number of my Kinetico bookmarks are not valid now. Something may be changing since the IIRC Swedish company bought them here a few months ago... Especially the link to Consumer Service related troubleshooting etc..

As to your link to the h2o2 web site, I don't see any mention of it being used to treat IRB or other reducing bacteria contaminated waters. Can you please direct me to why you posted the link?

If the rotten egg smell is on your HOT water only, you need to remove the anode rod and flush the heater from the bottom.

HTH ~

amberbamber,

When you say that you have a filter near the well head, does that mean between the well head and the pressure tank? If that is so, that would not be recommended and can cause serious problems with pressure and may burst a pipe.

That would need to be removed and placed after the pressure tank (after the pressure switch).

Depending on the micron rating of your filter it should be very effective at removing particulates that would normally pass through the softener. If, after a month or so, the filter changes color or there is a visible collection of particulates on the filter element, then you know it is working to some extent.

That filter is normally referred to as a Big Blue (BB) 10" (or 20") x 4.5". I have heard others called it a big boy filter, too.

Any chemical feed sanitation system you would put in using either chlorine or H202 would need equipment to remove excess chemicals once enough has been injected to fulfill its task. These chemical should not enter the softener, let alone your service water. So in this respect, they would have little effect on your water heater and elsewhere.

If a disinfection system is what you are really looking for, consider a UV system with adequate pre-filter of 5 microns. Select one that is listed by NSF as a Class-A model as these give assurances and safeguards of performance. It won't do anything for sulfur smells, though.

Hydrogen Sulfide odors CAN affect membrane performance and longevity so a carbon filter placed before it will help tremendously. Choose a GAC type.

Just curious, did you ask the Eco guy why he said he was one of 6 in the world with a CWS-VI? He may have been simply mistaken...

Anyway, I can tellyou are serious and curious about your water and that is a fine combination. I wish most of my prospects filled those shoes.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Amber, if you do what you say with chlorine, peroxide and Iron Out, you'll ruin your softener's resin fairly quickly.

And I would not suggest an "open air" chlorination system, there are better choices with much less expense and maintenance.

Gary how can I ruin the softeners resin if iron out takes out the iron and chlorine and h2o2 sanitize it?

What systems are less expensive and better?

So using the green bags of salt with Iron Out damages the resin? I have been told by several manufacturers that using Iron Out once a month to clean the iron from the resin will not harm the resin.

Those "several manufacturers" are correct. Red Out salt (pellets or blocks) will not harm your resin.
I suspect dishonest tactics are being used if someone tells you differently.

The people you should be talking to are the resin manufacturers.

All I've checked with say chlorine and resin cleaners harm resins.

Albeit slightly for each use, but if needed and not used, that harms resin more. So pick you poison but don't assume there's no damage with the use of chlorine or resin cleaners. Some resin cleaners may not harm resin but most if not all are acids and such.

amberbamber,

Resin cleaners greatest benefit is to help more thoroughly release iron, which is more tenacious than calcium, from the resin beads. Yes, it can be harmful to the resins, especially if used too often or in too great a quantity.

The greater the iron the more often it should be used. Although it can be slightly damaging to the resins, it is, by far, the lesser of two evils. Letting the iron run it course will diminish the resin far faster than the occasional cleansing.

When resin are encrusted with iron, they become brittle and start to break up into smaller pieces. At that point many of these minute pieces are washed out in the backwash, or come through the distributor screens and into the house.

A prefilter on your softener can prevent many problems with resin fouling. Make sure the filters are serviced regularly and that flow rate is not hindered. After inspecting filters you may be surprised how much is being prevented from entering the resins and the valve.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

So Andy, for the sake of commenting opposite to something I say you're approving this from Amber?

"Our plan is to just dump a cup of bleach in the brine tank of the softener on the 1st of the month and then a cup of h2o2 in on the 15th just to keep everything clean and sanitized. Plus some IronOut is needed to clean everything up it seems. I think this is where we are going to start an see how it goes. "

Andy, shame on you for supporting that much chlorine, peroxide and resin cleaner. Man you're supposed to be Certified and should know that that much is way too much and done the 1st and 15th of every month!, is way too frequently.

So why don't you help and share with everyone the correct amount and frequency?

Since you initially disagreed with me...

How frequently do you think a softener has to be or should be sanitized when there may be IRB present?

How frequently for Iron Out type resin cleaners due to ferrous iron?

When you get that right we'll talk about the volume of chlorine, peroxide and IO.

Do to a lack or misuse of punctuation, there is a great deal of ambiguity in this statement. My conclusion, therefore, is puzzling as to not only how such a declaration, interrogative, or argument to which I could respond could possibly be made, other than just: "Oh, well...."

Introductory subordinate clauses must be sperarated by a comma; at least I was always told so. Now, where should that comma be placed....uhm?

Maybe I should not call it ambiguous because that would mean the statement had at least two meanings rather than none at all.

There are easier ways to make quotes, someone once mentioned, unless it was 'for effect'.

All that aside, amberbamber, I hope my message to you was clear and, if not, please make further inquiries directly, and some here with interest or knowledge will try to assist you.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

So, if anyone questions what you say - you task them with a B.S. task to prove they are worthy before you offer any assistance. . .
Brilliant! I can tell just how much you care - what a joke!