1
   

HOW DO WE DEFINE A PEDOPHILE ?

 
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 07:16 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
agrote wrote:
Walter wrote:
averner wrote:
You all might be interested to know that the age of consent is 12 in the Netherlands.

That and weed is legal.. crazy country eh?


Nonsense. To all the three.


All the three what?


- the age of consent isn't 12,
- weed isn't legal.
- the Netherlands isn't a crazy counttry (though that is a persona opinion).


Weed is available legally in cafes in Amsterdam, no?

Wikipedia says their age of consent is 16. 12 rings a bell though... is that the age that the paedophile activists want to make it in Holland?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 07:35 am
agrote wrote:

Weed is available legally in cafes in Amsterdam, no?


For peronal use inside the coffee shops, yes. Outside, you're only allowed to have a small amount for personal use. Selling is illegal.
That's not only for Amsterdam but for all Netherlands.



agrote wrote:
Wikipedia says their age of consent is 16. 12 rings a bell though... is that the age that the paedophile activists want to make it in Holland?


Now, if you're talking about 'age of consent' in the meaning of 'age of consent for sexual activity' - that's correct. (In many European countris it is lower.) therwise the age of consent is 18.

"Paedophile activists" don't make laws in the Netherlands but the parliament (Eerste Kamer der Staten-Generaal and Tweede Kamer der Staten-Generaal.)


Otherwise, it's 18 - like all over Europe as well.
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 07:41 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
For peronal use inside the coffee shops, yes. Outside, you're only allowed to have a small amount for personal use. Selling is illegal.
That's not only for Amsterdam but for all Netherlands.


Right. So weed is legal in the Netherlands, essentially.

Quote:
Now, if you're talking about 'age of consent' in the meaning of 'age of consent for sexual activity' - that's correct... Otherwise the age of consent is 18.


What's the difference between the 'age of consent' and the 'age of consent for sexual activity'?

Quote:
"Paedophile activists" don't make laws in the Netherlands but the parliament.


Obviously.

Quote:
Otherwise, it's 18 - like all over Europe as well.


It seems to be younger than 18 in most of Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Netherlands.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 08:13 am
agrote wrote:

Right. So weed is legal in the Netherlands, essentially.

No, weed is illegally, esentially: whilst you can be punished for selling marijuana and possessing marijuana, the government and the police usually do not prosecute licensed coffeeshops and individuals who possess less than 5 grams.

agrote wrote:
What's the difference between the 'age of consent' and the 'age of consent for sexual activity'?


That was a translational mistake - I meant here age of majority.


agrote wrote:
It seems to be younger than 18 in most of Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Netherlands.


Again, my fault: see above.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 05:29 pm
agrote wrote:


Quote:
David, when you say you were 11,
do you actually mean 44?

No.
There is a distinct mathematical difference
between the two numbers.
If I meant to say 44, then I 'd have said 44.






Quote:
Or are you still an adolescent,
and making all of this up to impress people?

Tho I am fatter, older and uglier than I was then,
I still remain a kid inside; that 's how I feel.
The same kid is still there; just looks worse.
However, there is no reason for anyone to be impressed.
Its not like I won a Nobel Prize.
I just lived my life & did my best to enjoy it.









Quote:
Did any of these things actually happen?

Yes.





Quote:
Why should we believe you?

Y shud anyone believe anyone else ?
It is for that reason.


It appears that I have angered u.
That was neither my intention,
nor the result that I anticipated.

I expected there to be no result.

U asked me questions.
I answered your questions.
I am puzzled by your hostility; for what ?

David





`
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 05:50 pm
Wilso wrote:
Now you've got to define harm.
The laws on the age of consent attempt to make it illegal until people are emotionally able
to deal with the consequences of the act.
Not just physically.

To what emotional consequences do u refer ?
To what emotional ability ( to do WHAT ) do u refer ?

The only emotion that I remember is happiness;
( plus lust; there was lust; that was another emotion; shud not forget lust ).

Incidentally, when I was 11,
I had not the slightest interest in the law,
insofar as it applied to restraining or defeating my sexual gratification.


David



`
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 01:15 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
That was a translational mistake - I meant here age of majority.


Oh. What's that?

OmSigDAVID wrote:
It appears that I have angered u.
That was neither my intention,
nor the result that I anticipated.

I expected there to be no result.

U asked me questions.
I answered your questions.
I am puzzled by your hostility; for what ?


You haven't angered me, I'm not trying to be hostile. You're imagining my tone of voice - dangerous thing to do on the internet.

It just occured to me that your story was getting quite farfetched, and I'm struggling to believe it.

Ben
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 03:10 am
agrote wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
That was a translational mistake - I meant here age of majority.


Oh. What's that?

OmSigDAVID wrote:
It appears that I have angered u.
That was neither my intention,
nor the result that I anticipated.

I expected there to be no result.

U asked me questions.
I answered your questions.
I am puzzled by your hostility; for what ?


You haven't angered me,
I'm not trying to be hostile.
You're imagining my tone of voice - dangerous thing to do on the internet.

It just occured to me that your story was getting quite farfetched, and
I'm struggling to believe it.

Ben

I took a bus trip.
A 17 year old chic sat down next to me
and made overtures to me.
I responded favorably.

Y does that entail the indicated struggle ?

Is it your position that whenever a teenage girl wants anything,
that is always something that everyone agrees with ?

David



`
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 05:25 am
agrote wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
That was a translational mistake - I meant here age of majority.


Oh. What's that?


The age of majority is the threshold of adulthood as it is conceptualized in law ... more @ wiki
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 06:11 am
Maybe agrote, you will now stop dancing around the bushes and state clearly and exactly what point you are trying to make on this discussion. Because I haven't seen one yet.

BTW, the age of consent in NSW Australia is 16.
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:19 am
Wilso wrote:
Maybe agrote, you will now stop dancing around the bushes and state clearly and exactly what point you are trying to make on this discussion. Because I haven't seen one yet.


This isn't my thread. It's not my fault we've gone off topic... averner brought up the topic of weed, and Walter and I pursued it.

I thought I made some clear and relevant points earlier on, but they didn't get too many responses. I'll remind you of what I said before:

My definition of paedophilia- A paedophile is an adult with strong sexual feelings for children.
- In this context, a child could be defined as someone who has not yet reached an age (or developmental stage) at which they become physically capable and willing to have safe, consensual sex.
- My non-expert opinion is that the relevant stage is not the end of puberty, but some stage during puberty; early teenagers clearly desire and enjoy sex, are capable of reproducing, and (as far as I know) are not naturally more prone than adults to suffer harm as a result of sex.

Problems with my definition
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:32 pm
Wilso wrote:
Now you've got to define harm.
The laws on the age of consent attempt to make it illegal
until people are emotionally able
to deal with the consequences of the act.

Not just physically.

Will u define what is " emotionally able " Wilso ???

WHICH consequences of the act do u have in mind ?
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 03:28 am
Jesus christ, does every friggin' word need a definition? No, I'm leaving this dance behind.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 03:33 am
good choice wilso.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 04:40 am
Wilso wrote:
Jesus christ, does every friggin' word need a definition?
No, I'm leaving this dance behind.

In all honesty,
I believe that is a less than graceful way of lowering one 's flag
and fleeing the field, without admitting the uncertainty
of a concept whose existence he has alleged.
The burden of proof is on its proponent.
I wonder whether this tells us anything about the intellectual honesty
of such a person.

I have occasionally seen this concept
( of emotional ability, or the lack thereof ) in writing,
and found that concept to be of interest,
but I never had the opportunity to inquire about it
from he who asserts its existence; I guess I won 't now either,
since its affirmant ran away,
for reasons best known to himself.
( Maybe there is a new rule of the forum
that I don 't know about, that a poster who alleges
some state of affairs shud not have anyone ask him about it,
nor challenge him, either. )

David
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:15 am
You like talking about pedophilia dont you omsig.
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 01:21 pm
Wilso wrote:
Jesus christ, does every friggin' word need a definition?


Yes. Especially on a topic like this... people get sent to prison, or attacked or isolated from society, for being what we call a 'paedophile'. Don't you think we need to be careful about how we use that term? It's a life changing word, and terms used in defining it (such as 'emotionally able') are therefore also life-changing, and extremely important.

Understanding what constitutes emotional readiness for sex is also important for child protection, of course. We shouldnt' forget that.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2007 06:32 pm
agrote wrote:
Wilso wrote:
Jesus christ, does every friggin' word need a definition?


Yes. Especially on a topic like this... people get sent to prison,
or attacked or isolated from society, for being what we call a 'paedophile'.
Don't you think we need to be careful about how we use that term?
It's a life changing word, and terms used in defining it
(such as 'emotionally able') are therefore also life-changing,
and extremely important.

Understanding what constitutes emotional readiness for sex
is also important for child protection, of course. We shouldnt' forget that.

I think u hit the bull's eye, Agrote.
That was a neat and succinct analysis of the applicable logic
for which we all stand in your debt.

David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2007 07:22 pm
dadpad wrote:
You like talking about pedophilia dont you omsig.

Yes.
Since the earliest years that I am able to remember,
I have been interested in people 's mental processes,
be thay matters of dispassionate logical analysis,
or of emotion. From time to time, what people said and did
seemed strange and interesting, arousing my curiousity.
I used to ask them about it; I found out that sometimes thay get MAD
( like Wilso ) when u ask them what thay mean.
( Maybe we r supposed to pretend to have a full,
accurate & complete understanding of what he said;
I don 't know what Emily Post or Dorothy Manners
has to tell us about that. )

Sexuality, its attendant emotions,
and how people relate to them are inherently interesting to me.
( Of itself, the crowd psychology of observers of sexual phenomena,
including the occasional semi-hysterical lynch mob point of vu,
is inherently intriguing. )
I considered taking a degree in psychology;
to some extent, I regret my failure to have done so.

Agrote did a beautiful job of commenting upon the need to understand.
I adopt his point of vu, as expressed in his post.

I remember seeing an account of a criminal prosecution on TV
( maybe the 1990s ) of an alleged pedophile, who allegedly had
groped some autistic children who were unable to communicate.
The prosecution offered the testimony of a mental health care professional
of some kind, and qualified him on the record: the judge found him to be
a medical expert who was able to communicate with autistic children,
who no one else cud;
i.e., he was allowed to act as a translator for the alleged victims.
Upon the basis of his testimony alone defendant was convicted
and lengthy incarceration was inflicted upon him.
In later years, the alleged expert was discredited, as a quack
and defendant was eventually liberated.

I wonder Y the judge was willing to accept his purported ability
to translate ? Was it based upon logical reasoning,
or on an emotion of wishing to not let a possible child groper get away ?

It seems to me, based upon my observations,
that part of our population is aversive to subjecting emotional phenomena,
particularly sexual phenomena, to the scrutiny of logic,
in preference to making emotion-based ASSUMPTIONS
against people accused of sexual actions, or even of mere thoughts.

Emotional decisions can have very deleterious results.

In my opinion,
danger lies in ignorance, and safety lies in accurate understanding
of our emotional and jurisprudential environments.


R u aversive to logical analysis of sexual conduct
and of sexual ideation, dadpad ?

Do think we shud stop ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2007 08:05 pm
John Stossel: "Give Me a Break!"
This Friday on "20/20" at 10 p.m. EDT:

"I report on prosecution excess:
Two Oregon middle school boys were charged with five counts of felony
sex abuse and jailed for six days after they slapped some girls' butts.
But the girls say they slapped butts too. And

in Texas, a 5-year-old was accused of sexual harassment."






I might comment on this,
but I don 't wanna get dadpad ticked-off at me.
0 Replies
 
 

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