Brine tank overflowed!

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Help! I'm a newbie to the well water and softener systems. This morning, I awoke to find my downstairs flooded from my brine tank overflowing! Apparently, the previous owners were not wise enough to lead the overflow to a drain. For the time being, Clearwater instructed me to bypass the brine tank for now since they cannot make a service call until Tuesday. They are going to charge an outrageous amount to come out. Might this be simple enough for me to fix or at least check things it might be?
Thanks in advance for help, tips, or advice!

Mandy

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Re: Brine tank overflowed!

angelmand25 wrote:

Help! I'm a newbie to the well water and softener systems. This morning, I awoke to find my downstairs flooded from my brine tank overflowing! Apparently, the previous owners were not wise enough to lead the overflow to a drain.
For the time being, Clearwater instructed me to bypass the brine tank for now since they cannot make a service call until Tuesday. They are going to charge an outrageous amount to come out. Might this be simple enough for me to fix or at least check things it might be?
Thanks in advance for help, tips, or advice!

Mandy

Welcome to A2K Mandy,
if there was a steady flow of water from the brine tank the valve was stuck in brine fill.
This is usually an electromechanical problem that requires a service call.

Who is Clearwater and what brand is the softener?

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Re: Brine tank overflowed!
Clearwater is a water company that is in Florida, Michigan, and Ohio. They supply Kinetico systems. They are non-electric, but that is pretty much all I know. This morning, even though the brine tank is bypassed, we awoke to it having overflowed again. I do not know how it is filling... and we still cannot get someone to service until Tuesday!

Apparently, Clearwater will not release the manual or any other information to others who work with softeners, so they are the only company that can come to service.

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There is a A2K member that is familiar with Kinetico, hopefully he will chime in soon.

There is no Kinetico service in my area and my only option is to replace them with a Fleck powered system.
I will replace one this weekend.

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Re: Brine tank overflowed!

angelmand25 wrote:

This morning, even though the brine tank is bypassed, we awoke to it having overflowed again. I do not know how it is filling...

Mandy,

If the softener is bypassed then water can't be coming out of the brine tank feed.

A Kinetico softener has (at least) two heavy cylinders which are resin tanks and one big thin plastic lightweight cylinder which is a brine tank (where the salt goes).

A "bypass" valve assembly should be plumbed in just before the softener. There are a variety of bypass vales. Some have just one push-pull, some have two valves, and some have three valves. That assembly allows you to take the entire softener out of the water supply (bypass) OR to shut off the water to the softener and therefore the house.

If you misunderstand the bypass valve then you might be not be shutting off the water to the softener when you think that you are.

If you can post a picture of the bypass we might help long distance or do you know anyone with plumbing experience or a friend who has handyman experience you can call?

Also, call back Clearwater and ask to speak to the manager or the owner. Make them understand that you did what they said, to the best of your understanding, and still have a massive water leak and that a service call on Tuesday won't be acceptable. If they don't help then go to www.Kinetico.com and call their customer service. Explain your situation to them. The home office takes great interest is seeing that Kinetico owners receive the service they require in a timely manner.

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Re: Brine tank overflowed!

angelmand25 wrote:

Help!This morning, I awoke to find my downstairs flooded from my brine tank overflowing! For the time being, Clearwater instructed me to bypass the brine tank for now since they cannot make a service call until Tuesday. They are going to charge an outrageous amount to come out. Might this be simple enough for me to fix or at least check things it might be?
Thanks in advance for help, tips, or advice!

Mandy

They didn't mean by-pass the brine tank, they mean to by-pass the entire softener. The by-pass valve is where the plumbing/pipes connect to the back of the control valve. Usually there two 'handles', one on the inlet pipe and one on the outlet, you rotate them clockwise IIRC. That shuts off all the water to the softener.

I see it also overflowed again last night. The cause may be due to the poor design of the Kinetico that allows full water main pressure to the brine/salt tank at all times except when the softener is in the brine draw/brining cycle of a regeneration.

If you have a loose brine line connection that usually doesn't leak with say 65 or less lbs of water pressure, and the pressure overnight increases to say 70 psi or higher, which city water does and then if you don't have a pressure regulator valve, the higher pressure can cause the loose connection to leak into the tank and eventually overflow onto the floor.

Clack control valves prevent this problem because they do not allow water pressure to the brine tank except during brine tank refill.

So.... if you don't have a by-pass on the softener or in the plumbing (3 valves, 2 open and one between the two lines closed) turn off the water to your house as you go to bed each night until the Kinetico guys show up.

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Re: Brine tank overflowed!

justalurker wrote:

angelmand25 wrote:
This morning, even though the brine tank is bypassed, we awoke to it having overflowed again. I do not know how it is filling...

Mandy,

If the softener is bypassed then water can't be coming out of the brine tank feed.

A Kinetico softener has (at least) two heavy cylinders which are resin tanks and one big thin plastic lightweight cylinder which is a brine tank (where the salt goes).

A "bypass" valve assembly should be plumbed in just before the softener. There are a variety of bypass vales. Some have just one push-pull, some have two valves, and some have three valves. That assembly allows you to take the entire softener out of the water supply (bypass) OR to shut off the water to the softener and therefore the house.

If you misunderstand the bypass valve then you might be not be shutting off the water to the softener when you think that you are.

If you can post a picture of the bypass we might help long distance or do you know anyone with plumbing experience or a friend who has handyman experience you can call?

Also, call back Clearwater and ask to speak to the manager or the owner. Make them understand that you did what they said, to the best of your understanding, and still have a massive water leak and that a service call on Tuesday won't be acceptable. If they don't help then go to www.Kinetico.com and call their customer service. Explain your situation to them. The home office takes great interest is seeing that Kinetico owners receive the service they require in a timely manner.

Excellent advice Very Happy

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Update
Here is an update:

My brine tank kept overflowing because he said I did not have the valve turned all the way. He told me you have to turn it until you feel as though it will break... I'm not very strong, so I didn't get it that far!

So, the whole problem turned out to be as simple as a bad floater! He replaced it in less than 10 minutes. Plus, service, part, and salt only totaled $150- much less than what I was expecting! Of course, this does not include my floor, which looks to be ruined.

Thanks to your help, I called yesterday morning and said I absolutely could not wait until Tuesday... lo and behold, I was able to get someone by 3pm.

Thank you all so much for your help... I've realized I need to learn more about my system!

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Re: Update

angelmand25 wrote:

Here is an update:

My brine tank kept overflowing because he said I did not have the valve turned all the way. He told me you have to turn it until you feel as though it will break... I'm not very strong, so I didn't get it that far!

So, the whole problem turned out to be as simple as a bad floater! He replaced it in less than 10 minutes. Plus, service, part, and salt only totaled $150- much less than what I was expecting! Of course, this does not include my floor, which looks to be ruined.

Thanks to your help, I called yesterday morning and said I absolutely could not wait until Tuesday... lo and behold, I was able to get someone by 3pm.

Thank you all so much for your help... I've realized I need to learn more about my system!

Great news, your dealer came through, had the parts on the truck, and now you're back in soft water.

Don't forget to have the overflow from the brine tank run to a drain. Every water softener, regardless of brand, has that same overflow connection (fitting) from the brine tank (area) and it should be connected to a drain to protect the surrounding area in the event of a brine tank overflow.

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Mandy, I'm glad to hear they came out and fixed the problem. Most dealers won't do it but, they should have stayed on the phone with you the first time you called to insure the flooding problem was stopped but... I think you stopped the flow although you didn't have the by-pass valve fully closed and then, your water pressure increased over night allowing the float valve to leak again.

That says you have another problem that may cause their new float valve to leak again. You need a pressure regulator valve on the main water line as it enters the house to prevent the water pressure from rising above 65 psi.

People thinking of buying Kinetico should take note that Kinetico does not have a separate valve to turn the brine tank refill water on/off on the control valve. Hence they do not have a safety brine system that would have prevented this high water pressure caused failure. Andy, am I right?

Then to have the dealer come out two days later (or next Tuesday) with a part that costs them maybe $15 (my cost for a salt dose setting type brine pick up float valve anyway) and then charge $150 for their travel time to and from plus the 10-15 minutes it takes to replace it.

A DIYer could have ordered the part online toll free and paid for over night or 2nd day delivery and fixed it in the same length of time with nothing more than a pair of pliers but well sooner than next Tuesday when it was Wednesday when they first called! And then they would have saved at least half the $150.00+/- charge of a local dealer. And it can be done at your convenience instead of standing around waiting for the guy to show up.

A dealer taking from Wednesday to next Tuesday to show up for service.... that begs my asking just how much service is the dealer having to do on Kinetico equipment!!

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Re: Update

angelmand25 wrote:

Of course, this does not include my floor, which looks to be ruined.

Check with your homeowners insurance, just in case it's worse than it looks.

***************************************

H2O equipment dealers need to learn something from your adventure.

This is not a do it yourself item for the consumer. The selling dealer needs to be there to service equipment.

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Re: Update

H2O_MAN wrote:

angelmand25 wrote:
Of course, this does not include my floor, which looks to be ruined.

Check with your homeowners insurance, just in case it's worse than it looks.

That may not be a good idea since all the talk and canceled and non-renewed policies due to water damage claims and potential paranoia about mold problems.

H2O_MAN wrote:

***************************************

H2O equipment dealers need to learn something from your adventure.

This is not a do it yourself item for the consumer. The selling dealer needs to be there to service equipment.

So you are saying a homeowner can't use a pair of household pliers to loosen and remove a 5/16" or 1/2" compression nut and remove the float pickup tube and place a new one in the brine well and tighten that nut up themselves.... Maybe you need more handy customers BUT you tell your DIY valve conversion customers to change the Rainsoft brine tube to the Fleck float themselves. Anyone can see this on your web site! So why a different self serving story here?

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