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Water softener sizing question?

 
 
hobbs
 
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 02:47 pm
16gpg
7.4PH
0 iron
City water supply
5gpm at tub faucet
(1) Bathroom with standard tub and low flow shower head
Dishwasher
Washing machine
(2) adults
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,240 • Replies: 18
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justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 02:54 pm
If you don't anticipate the family growing a 1 cu ft (commonly referred to as a 32k) will do nicely.

If your home isn't already plumbed for a softener you should consider getting a local water treatment pro in there to inspect the installation site and recommend a softener.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 03:15 pm
justalurker wrote:
If you don't anticipate the family growing a 1 cu ft (commonly referred to as a 32k) will do nicely.

If your home isn't already plumbed for a softener you should consider getting a local water treatment pro in there to inspect the installation site and recommend a softener.


+1 Cool

Consider the EcoWater ERR 3500 for the job.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 04:45 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
justalurker wrote:
If you don't anticipate the family growing a 1 cu ft (commonly referred to as a 32k) will do nicely.

If your home isn't already plumbed for a softener you should consider getting a local water treatment pro in there to inspect the installation site and recommend a softener.


+1 Cool


I'm not a water softener salesman but I did stay in a motorhome last night.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 06:57 am
Re: Water softener sizing question?
hobbs wrote:
16gpg
7.4PH
0 iron
City water supply
5gpm at tub faucet
(1) Bathroom with standard tub and low flow shower head
Dishwasher
Washing machine
(2) adults


Here is what the plumbing codes say about sizing a softener. Note there is nothing about the number of people in the house. The number of people are used in the formula to determine the capacity in K grains of a softener and the salt dose in lbs in a given volume and type of resin dictates the salt efficiency.

Also, all softeners have two SFRs (service flow ratings); peak and continuous flow in gpm. You want to pay strict attention to the continuous flow gpm. Most softeners do not tell you the continuous flow rate, only the peak gpm. If your flow rate exceeds either figure, the softener will not be able to remove all the hardness in your water. Continuous means as long as you use that gpm flow rate. Peak is usually for a 2-3 minute period at best and as a softener ages, that figure can decrease.

Here is some interesting reading.

Here is data on the suggested 1.0 cuft (32k) softener, it is for regular mesh resin, fine mesh resin gpm figures are less:
Tank Diameter 9 Tank Height 48
Cu. Ft. Cap. with 50% Freeboard
D.L.F.C. Size * 2.21
Inches of Media 27
Inches of Freeboard 21
System Capacity: 20000
With Salt Setting of: 6 lbs
Recommended Continuous Flow Rate 6.63 gpm
System Capacity: 24000
With Salt Setting of: 8.50 lbs
System Capacity: 30000
With Salt Setting of: 15 lbs
Recommended Peak Flow Rate 11.04 gpm
Reference Guide for Approximate Sizing Only.
* Based on 53 deg. water @ 5gpm
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 07:06 am
How much of the 10 year old Maryland plumbing code applies to everyone in the entire country?


"Reference Guide for Approximate Sizing Only. * Based on 53 deg. water @ 5gpm"
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 08:43 am
ummmm.... LOL

That's not the codes for MD!

It covers all five national plumbing codes in the US. Four of them (STILL TODAY) have a SFR code for correctly sizing a softener. The article is from the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) Research Center LOCATED in MD.

The Approximate Sizing has to to with the salt dose efficiencies for 1 cuft of regular mesh resin and is not related in any way to the codes; except for the peak and continuous flow rates....
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 09:11 am
"ummmm.... LOL" Rolling Eyes

How much of the code applies to the do it yourself installer?
Do you include a copy of the code with every system you sell?
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 09:56 am
I see your Ecowater salesman buddy told horro his drain line wasn't to code and he and you have left him thinking is was a serious thing so he is spending $3000 for a glorified and over priced Kenmore called an Ecowater.

As you know, it takes maybe 15 minutes to run a drain line.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 10:16 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
I see your Ecowater salesman buddy told horro his drain line wasn't to code and he and you have left him thinking is was a serious thing


I see you drank your breakfast again and now your into your liquid lunch.
It's a good thing that trailer is parked. You don't need to be at the wheel in your condition.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 10:47 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
I see your Ecowater salesman buddy told horro his drain line wasn't to code and he and you have left him thinking is was a serious thing so he is spending $3000 for a glorified and over priced Kenmore called an Ecowater.

As you know, it takes maybe 15 minutes to run a drain line.


That's some real sour grapes over not making a sale you weren't supposed to be trying to make on this forum in the first place.

Once again you've shown all that it's not about helping the customer, it's about helping the customer's money into your pocket. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 10:15 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
As you know, it takes maybe 15 minutes to run a drain line.

justalurker wrote:
That's some real sour grapes over not making a sale you weren't supposed to be trying to make on this forum in the first place.

You're wrong again and skipping over my point that they sold him a $3000 Ecowater softener, that is not much more than the $800+/- Sears or GE softeners, partially because they mention a code problem with the drain line.

What they didn't tell him is that it takes them 15-20 minutes to run a new drain line that shouldn't cost them more than $15 wholsale, to the washer drain AND that he could do that himself for like $20-$25 by buying 25' to 50' of the drain line at a hardware store. And shame on you and h20man too for all your code drama off topic stuff.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 11:01 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
And shame on you and h20man too for all your code drama off topic stuff.


Rolling Eyes What in hell are going on about now? Who is the "they" you are speaking of?
0 Replies
 
harrorainsoft
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 11:33 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
As you know, it takes maybe 15 minutes to run a drain line.

justalurker wrote:
That's some real sour grapes over not making a sale you weren't supposed to be trying to make on this forum in the first place.

You're wrong again and skipping over my point that they sold him a $3000 Ecowater softener, that is not much more than the $800+/- Sears or GE softeners, partially because they mention a code problem with the drain line.

What they didn't tell him is that it takes them 15-20 minutes to run a new drain line that shouldn't cost them more than $15 wholsale, to the washer drain AND that he could do that himself for like $20-$25 by buying 25' to 50' of the drain line at a hardware store. And shame on you and h20man too for all your code drama off topic stuff.


Hmm... how can you assume that I paid $3000? Do you really think that I would even consider paying that much for a water softener when I know I could get one online and have someone install it for a grand total of about $1000 max? Yeah... I think not.

I paid way less than $3000 for my EcoWater ERR 3502R30. All the piping of the old softener was replaced, the drain line was re-routed, new bypass valve, new faucet with soft water in the garage, AND 10 year warranty on both valve and control board, as well as lifetime warranty on both tanks.' And 1 year service warranty. Oh yeah, system comes with a wireless remote which tells me how much water i use daily, daily average usage, ability to start a regeneration cycle without lifting my ass off my chair, total gallons of water left before next cycle, how much salt left in the tank, when i will need to add salt, and all this other stuff. All for significantly LESS than $3000.

Please tell me that you can offer all of that. And if I were to sell this place, it costs $25 to transfer all the warranty stuff to the new owner.

To assume is to make an ASS out of U and ME. And assumption is the mother of all f**k-ups. These wise words were told me by very wise men.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 10:50 am
harrorainsoft wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
As you know, it takes maybe 15 minutes to run a drain line.

justalurker wrote:
That's some real sour grapes over not making a sale you weren't supposed to be trying to make on this forum in the first place.

You're wrong again and skipping over my point that they sold him a $3000 Ecowater softener, that is not much more than the $800+/- Sears or GE softeners, partially because they mention a code problem with the drain line.

What they didn't tell him is that it takes them 15-20 minutes to run a new drain line that shouldn't cost them more than $15 wholsale, to the washer drain AND that he could do that himself for like $20-$25 by buying 25' to 50' of the drain line at a hardware store. And shame on you and h20man too for all your code drama off topic stuff.


Hmm... how can you assume that I paid $3000? Do you really think that I would even consider paying that much for a water softener when I know I could get one online and have someone install it for a grand total of about $1000 max? Yeah... I think not.

I paid way less than $3000 for my EcoWater ERR 3502R30. All the piping of the old softener was replaced, the drain line was re-routed, new bypass valve, new faucet with soft water in the garage, AND 10 year warranty on both valve and control board, as well as lifetime warranty on both tanks.' And 1 year service warranty. Oh yeah, system comes with a wireless remote which tells me how much water i use daily, daily average usage, ability to start a regeneration cycle without lifting my ass off my chair, total gallons of water left before next cycle, how much salt left in the tank, when i will need to add salt, and all this other stuff. All for significantly LESS than $3000.

Please tell me that you can offer all of that. And if I were to sell this place, it costs $25 to transfer all the warranty stuff to the new owner.

To assume is to make an ASS out of U and ME. And assumption is the mother of all f**k-ups. These wise words were told me by very wise men.

Hell man, anyone can offer anything, it's how they handle the problem when it happens, not what they promise to do some time in the distant future. I've been doing warranty work by replacing the part free of charge for 21 years. The only difference now with online sales is that I'm not on site to take the part and ship it to my supplier so my customer ships it. But now they spend much less online for the same softener I had to charge many hundreds more for as a local dealer.

I'm not going to go look up where you or someone said something about $3000 but, what exactly did you pay for it? Most people pay over $2000 to $4000+ for them.

You should read the fine print on their warranty. You should also search the internet and see how they actually fulfill their warranty when needed.

And compare their features to Kenmore etc.. They, Sears, Whirlpool, GE, have or offer most of those features.

No I can't offer the when it's time to add salt beep him in his recliner feature but... the rest is all available by pushing a couple buttons on the controls I offer and lifting the brine tank lid looking at how much salt is in the tank!

And my same size/volume of resin, upflow/counter-current regenerated Clack or Fleck controls and fine mesh or SST-60 resins salt efficiency softener will be less than whatever you paid for the Ecowater.

And... you could find many dealers, local and on the internet to get parts for them. If it's a Clack control valve, all you have to know is what they call their softener using a Clack WS-1 control valve. Or go to web sites selling softeners and find the picture of the Clack control valve; they can get parts if you want to buy them from them. Anyone selling Autotrol or Fleck control valves can get Clack parts if they want to.

You can't do that with Ecowater. Also, the two tank model I sell is much easier to work on because the control valve and resin tank is not in the salt tank as yours is.

And if I charged their usual premium price, I could replace the few parts needed over the next 5-10 years but I do that now anyway; cost to the owner is the UPS charge to ship the part back to my supplier after receiving their new part.

Before you go on about my replies to your or other posts again, think of this, I'm really not doing the reply only for your benefit, I reply to you AND for the benefit of all the others that will read this now and in the future.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 10:56 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
I'm really not doing the reply only for your benefit, I reply to you AND for the benefit of all the others that will read this now and in the future.


In the interest of full disclosure that should read... I reply to you AND for the benefit of MYSELF and all others that will read this now and in the future as they are potential customers.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 11:00 am
justalurker wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
I'm really not doing the reply only for your benefit, I reply to you AND for the benefit of all the others that will read this now and in the future.


In the interest of full disclosure that should read... I reply to you AND for the benefit of MYSELF and all others that will read this now and in the future as they are potential customers.


Yep, it's all about selling Cheap Clack and badmouthing anyone and anything those dares to offer an alternative.

It takes a real small man to badmouth the competition, but this guy badmouths everybody... proving that he is tiny and insignificant.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 01:22 pm
justalurker wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
I'm really not doing the reply only for your benefit, I reply to you AND for the benefit of all the others that will read this now and in the future.


In the interest of full disclosure that should read... I reply to you AND for the benefit of MYSELF and all others that will read this now and in the future as they are potential customers.

Yes I've been helping people online since Jan 1997. My first online sale was roughly mid 2002 through email. My dinky web site went live Sept 21 or the 23rd 2003.

I also have answered thousands of questions, emails and phone calls (last call 8:50 AM ET last Sat, from AK IIRC) well and water pump questions since 1997.

I do not sell them online or offline. I have sold two online; last was 2005. I shut down my local well pump and pressure tank sales and service about Jun of 2005. That was 6 months after shutting down my local sales and service of water treatment equipment. I couldn't keep up with the online business and do local business too and refused to hire employees for the local stuff!!

Stevie, I see you have been posting for roughly 24 months, actually only since our argument Aug 25th 2005 thereabouts.... and you sound jealous! hehehehee

And until you become a much better troubleshooter, you'll never catch up.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 01:32 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
And until you become a much better troubleshooter, you'll never catch up.


I know what the trouble is and more people see it every time you post.
0 Replies
 
 

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