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Swedish women fight for right to bare breasts

 
 
nimh
 
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 01:55 pm
Caught your attention, eh? :wink:

Quote:
Women fight for right to bare breasts

The Local
20th September 2007

Two female students are demanding their rights after they were banned from bathing topless at a swimming pool in Uppsala. If girls are forced to wear bikinis, boys should be too, one of the women told The Local.

Ragnhild Karlsson, 22, and her friend Kristin Karlsson, 21, live on the same corridor in a student residence in the university town. On September 5th they took a trip to the Fyrishov leisure complex, where they decided to hop in for a swim without their bikini tops.

Though the pool was full of swimmers, a female lifeguard eventually caught sight of the bare-breasted women and reached for her whistle.

"We had been swimming for a while without anybody paying us any attention when the guards called us to the side and told us to either put on a top or leave. So we left," Ragnhild Karlsson told The Local.

On Wednesday, the two women sent a letter to the Equal Opportunities Ombudsman explaining that they saw no reason for men an women to be treated differently. If anything, a bikini top could be accused of drawing unnecessary attention to a woman's breasts.

"It's a question of equality. I think it's a problem that women are sexualized in this way. If women are forced to wear a top, shouldn't men also have to?"

The two friends said they were surprised when they were approached by the lifeguards.

"We thought it was against the law to treat people differently," said Ragnhild Karlsson, who is studying to be a speech therapist. Her friend Kristin aims to practice occupational therapy.

Staff at the pool later referred to studies showing that crimes of a sexual nature were particularly common in swimming pool environments.

"Surely women should be allowed to decide for themselves whether they need protecting. And is it not strange that women should somehow bear responsibily for sex crimes carried out by men," said Ragnhild Karlsson.

But a spokeswoman for the leisure complex stood by their decision not to allow the women to bathe topless.

"Swimming pools generally require men to wear swimming trunks and women to wear either bikinis or one piece swimsuits," Inger Grotteblad told The Local.

"There are three reasons for this. First, there is a security aspect, then there is a hygiene issue and finally there is what we call 'prevailing manners and customs'. It is above all this last point which is important here," she added.

She also pointed out that the swimming complex always needed to bear in mind the preferences of its guests.

"We have a lot of visitors here, ranging from families with children to the elderly. We also have people from different ethnic backgrounds. We want all of them to be able to enjoy themselves when they come here.

"This issue is new to us and we welcome the debate. It is important that everybody gets to voice their opinion, from families with children to naturists, older people and Muslim women. We have asked our governing body to look into this and hope they will come back to us with recommendations," said Grotteblad.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 19,059 • Replies: 104
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 03:42 pm
This story is deficient in one particular respect.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 03:45 pm
Where are the pictures??

Joe(what a disappointment!!!!)Nation Mr. Green
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 04:25 pm
I will be glad to fly over and play a benefit for their defense fund...
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 04:38 pm
That's just sensationalism. The girls did it for attention (which they got,) and the place got some free publicity.

Someone should have given the girls the phone number of that guy that produces the Girls Gone Wild videos.

You'll notice I'm referring to them as 'girls' rather than 'women.'
Apparently they're too immature to understand why women need to wear tops and men don't.

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 05:12 pm
Tell them to move to Ontario.

No tops required. For men, women, boys or girls.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 05:13 pm
happycat wrote:
Apparently they're too immature to understand why women need to wear tops and men don't.


mmmm, that's really only an issue in a few countries. Most of the world is pretty okay with boobs.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 05:14 pm
happycat wrote:
That's just sensationalism. The girls did it for attention (which they got,) and the place got some free publicity.

Someone should have given the girls the phone number of that guy that produces the Girls Gone Wild videos.

You'll notice I'm referring to them as 'girls' rather than 'women.'
Apparently they're too immature to understand why women need to wear tops and men don't.


Rolling Eyes



Really? Why's that? I mean, if it's purely mechanical, John Goodman should have to wear a top and Calista Flockhart shouldn't...
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 06:00 pm
They make a valid point. I wouldn't go as far as they did myself, but from biological point of view, all that women boobs have extra is some fat. Othewise men have the same nipples, even the same mammary glands. It is culture that dictates that it makes 'sense' for women to wear tops.
After all, it's not like those flimsy triangles of stretchy cloth really cover anything anyway... And as far as crime goes, I believe less of it was commited if the taboo of naked boobs was done away with. once you cover up, mystify and taboo-ize, it's only more appealing. shrug, i wish them best of luck.
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 07:14 pm
oh c'mon people.

As long as women's breasts are considered a sex organ - and they are by a good portion of of the world - they should be covered when in public around children.

(and no, I'm not talking about nursing a baby, or even for that matter ugly old women - though that would be just scary)

But if I'm at a resort or beach with my 14 year old son, I don't want some buxom 22 year old bimbo bouncing down the beach in front of us.
How uncomfortable would that be as a parent? ugh.

You all can say what you want, but I was brought up on east coast of the US and we women generally keep our boobs somewhat under wraps....unless we intend to use them.....for whatever reason.
:wink:
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 07:26 pm
isn't that what they are contesting? that breasts are not a sex organ? that that's a product of our upbringing and not nature? and that culture can sometimes be discriminatory, which this is an example of?

i don't have kids, but my nephew saw my boobs nekkid on stage (hey, it was a theatrical production). good portion of the world may cover them up, but there is ALSO a good portion of the world that doesn't cover them at all.... these women are talking about discrimination and rights. now, culturally, you might be right. but philosophically, they are. not that i particularly care one way or another.... interesting human rights issue though... Smile
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 07:47 pm
dag - The society in which you live dictates what is accepted and what is not accepted. Of course it's all upbringing. And no, it's not always correct and it can be discriminatory.


But I know that 2 barebreasted young woman aren't going to change things overnight, or over a year, or probably over 10 years.

They got their jollies, and I'm sure that's all they really set out to do.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 07:56 pm
happycat wrote:
But if I'm at a resort or beach with my 14 year old son, I don't want some buxom 22 year old bimbo bouncing down the beach in front of us.
How uncomfortable would that be as a parent? ugh.


what has he learned/is he learning from you if you're uncomfortable in that sort of situation?

~~~

comfort with our own/others skin makes things much better for all of us

anxiety about toplessness/burkha - one and the same to me
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 07:58 pm
happycat wrote:
2 barebreasted young woman aren't going to change things overnight, or over a year, or probably over 10 years.


One bare-breasted young woman changed things in Ontario in a very short period of time. People don't even particularly blink if they see a topless busker these days. Sure, the first time you see a lovely young woman playing the flute on a street-corner, it's a bit of a surprise, but then you go on with things.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 08:02 pm
Society I live in now once dictated slavery is OK. Not saying it's the same thing....just that that's not a good reason to stick to, or to excuse some practices by. Neither is level of comfort.

Sure it won't change overnight. But I don't know what they set out to do - I'm surprised that you do. For all we know, they might be dead serious. Again, I don't really care, topless beaches (or rather being topless on any old beach) are already rather common in Europe, and in daily life I prefer a bra for support. And who doesn't, shouldn't have to wear one. Shrug. I think it's just a matter of time.
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 01:22 am
NOT THE NIPPLE AGAIN! ANYTHING BUT THE NIPPLE!
when i was tiny, i grew up with a pair of bare breasts in my face and i turned out okay.

is anyone else missing out on the fact they're multipurpose? i mean the mouth can be a sex organ too, and women go around smiling all day, honestly it's no wonder people are so depraved. also: you know in new york it's been declared unconstitutional to force women to cover them?
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 04:38 am
Quote:
"There are three reasons for this. First, there is a security aspect, then there is a hygiene issue and finally there is what we call 'prevailing manners and customs'. It is above all this last point which is important here," she added.


With this one statement, this person has called womens breasts dirty, embarassing, and sex provoking.

How sad is that.

The only reason people dont like to see a breast is because it makes them think sex. And in alot of puritan based societies, people are taught to not think about sex, not feel anything about sex, and that it is only something people do in private with thier husband/wife and no more. They are taught that being a sexual being, which includes random thoughts of sex through out the day, is wrong, dirty, and whorish. And those that make you feel sex are bad.

When they see skin and think sex, it makes them uncomfortable. Instead of being an adult and owning that discomfort, they try to pass it on to the person who is showing the skin calling them " hussies, sluts, dirty, sloppy, whores, tramps.." all the while screaming " WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS! COVER YOURSELF SO THE KIDS DONT SEE"
as if nudity kills. Rolling Eyes

And what is this "sanitation " reason?
Bare breasts make the water dirty? Bare skin makes the water dirty?

Uhhh hellooooo miss pool owner, ALL SKIN GETS WET IN THE WATER, no matter what you are wearing. Kids and some adults PEE IN THE WATER.....
Sanitation is NOT a valid reason. But it sure speaks volumes about how people think about and look at breasts. ( dirty, unsantiary??)

And I do not buy the statement of ' it keeps women safe'
The only thing that keeps women safe is to rid the world of men and that is ridicilous as well. Male rapists will rape no matter what she is wearing. And what she is wearing is not responsible for that brutal behavior.

Women are not delicate things that need rules and societies upturned nose to protect. Bare skin is bare skin. So what.

It doesnt harm a child to see a nude person. And older age child may have a sexual thought about a nude person. Oh dear lord, the earth will come to an end if that is happening Rolling Eyes Heaven forbid a sexual being experience sexual thoughts. Jeezee..

I would expect this kind of article from America, honestly. Not Swedin
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 05:01 am
I can only speak for myself.

I have enough trouble as it is getting any reading done at the beach because I get distracted, not to mention turned on, by the passing semi-nude female shapes. I suppose I could get used to seeing topless women, but I doubt it.

I once tried to kill a chocolate habit by eating lots and lots of the the stuff. I did not find out what my limit was.

(Wait a minute. There are flutists playing topless on Ontario streets?)

Excuse me. I have to gather some more thoughts about this.

Joe(goggles 'flights to Ontario')Nation
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 05:49 am
ehBeth wrote:
happycat wrote:
But if I'm at a resort or beach with my 14 year old son, I don't want some buxom 22 year old bimbo bouncing down the beach in front of us.
How uncomfortable would that be as a parent? ugh.


what has he learned/is he learning from you if you're uncomfortable in that sort of situation?

~~~

comfort with our own/others skin makes things much better for all of us

anxiety about toplessness/burkha - one and the same to me



I'm uncomfortable watching naked women and sex scenes with my son who is at the age where sex and naked women are on his mind something like once every 90 seconds (or whatever they say it is.)
And all that crap about naked breasts being natural is bullshit as long Playboy and the like continue to publish photos of naked women as sex symbols.

Why do they put brown paper covers on magazines such as Playboy and Maxim, and restrict the buying age?

Those of you who say it's natural and all that crap....obviously don't have any teenage boys in your home, and if you do, you're trying to telll me that you don't feel weird watching them get a hard on looking at naked women?
If that's true, then there's something wrong with you, not me.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 06:31 am
Teenage boys are wired for hard-ons. I know -- I was one. Yeah, bare boobs were good for that. So were women in bikinis, or one-pieces, or old-fashioned bathing costumes. A ride on the highway with snow chains. Sitting bored in class. Waking up in the morning. Now, I don't really care one way or the other, but the eroticization and censure of breasts is utterly and completely arbitrary (well, nipples get erect, but they do on men, too, and they do it for all sorts of reasons).





Just a thought: what if your teenage son was gay. Would you ask a well-muscled young man at the pool to please put a shirt on, you might give my boy a boner?
0 Replies
 
 

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