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water softener/filtration system-Rainsoft, Culligan,Kinetico

 
 
m3m3m3
 
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2007 02:58 pm
Hi

I am in the market for a water softener/filtration system. I've talked to both Culligan and Rainsoft. I just contacted Kinetico. I had Culligan over and they tried to sell pretty hard, but were courteous. Rainsoft has not come over yet, but I did get some info. They both quoted me on the softener systems with carbon filter.

My big concern is I want a product that will last with minimal maintanence. Rainsoft claims lifetime warranty and Culligan has either a 1 year, 2 year or lifetime depending on the part. But in searching the internet I hear about this Rainsoft part (valve or soemthing) breaking and needing repair. So I am kind of confused why arent those parts covered

Can you guys share how do these 3 brands compare in terms of warranty and performance? And which company should I go for? Culligan is asking $3k for their softener, Rainsoft ~$3.5k... We are comfortable with these prices if they are performance products that have strong warranties and will be trouble-free.

Thanks in advance!
 
harrorainsoft
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 12:24 am
Hi, I have a broken rainsoft unit in my basement. The closest dealer is 50 miles away because the dealer that was 10 miles away went out of business. STAY AWAY FROM RAINSOFT!

I just had an EcoWater salesperson come to my house. I can tell you that the high end model he quoted me was quite a bit less than the lowest quote you mentioned. According to H2O_MAN, EcoWater is superior to all those brands you mentioned, and in my opinion those quotes are ridiculously high.

Call an EcoWater dealer near you and see how much they cost.
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 09:21 am
Then read all the posts here about water softeners and learn how to correctly size a softener yourself.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 09:43 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
Then read all the posts here about water softeners and learn how to correctly size a softener yourself.


You should also learn how to make your own resin and fabricate your own control valve Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 10:03 pm
There are many choices when it comes to water tretment equipment. Some are good, some junk and some great. You can hear many people share their expereinces both good and bad about anything out there.

Check out
www.ripoff.com
www.complaints.com

Do a search for a particular brand and see what pops up. This will help you understand some of the problems a piece of equipment may cause you as well.

Let us know what Rainsoft and Kinetico have come up with.

Andy Christensen, CWS
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 05:45 am
Correction
That's ...
www.ripoffreport.com
not www.ripoff.com
0 Replies
 
m3m3m3
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 04:49 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
Then read all the posts here about water softeners and learn how to correctly size a softener yourself.


huh? I was just looking for some advice.

From searching the forums, it really seems alot of ppl are having problems with Rainsoft. But they are referring to older units....is it still true with newer units?

As water softener specialists, what are your experiences with Kinetico? Thanks in advance!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 05:52 pm
m3m3m3 wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
Then read all the posts here about water softeners and learn how to correctly size a softener yourself.


huh? I was just looking for some advice.

Things that make you say huh? :wink:



m3m3m3 wrote:
From searching the forums, it really seems alot of ppl are having problems with Rainsoft. But they are referring to older units....is it still true with newer units?

The old brass RainSoft control valves are obsolete and have no factory support. Parts are few and far between.
I have replaced hundreds of these with Fleck 2510SE valves.

The newer valves are made by Fleck to RainSoft's specifications. The silver series is junk and the Gold series is OK.
You are better off with a factory Fleck valve.

Other than replacing them with units powered by Fleck, I have no experience with Kinetico.
In all fairness to Kinetico - there is no factory service in my area.

HTH ~
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 06:29 pm
m3m3m3 wrote:
what are your experiences with Kinetico?


Kinetico has been around for quite a while. They are a proprietary design (parts and service through local Kinetico dealer) and use two resin tanks to provide soft water 24/7 alternately regenerating each resin tank precisely as necessary making for very efficient operation. They offer a variety of configurations to deal with little available space, city or well water, and problem water. Kinetico has an extensive dealer/service network and has built up a large and loyal customer base.

Kinetico control valves do not use electricity, they are water powered, and that advantage lends them to some interesting installations not (easily) accomplished when AC is required.

Most of the criticism of Kinetico softeners comes from people who have to sell against them. They rant about "centuries old water power" conveniently ignoring that "centuries old water power" costs the user nothing and produces lots of the electricity in this country and worldwide. The Hoover Dam seems to be pretty reliable :wink:

Properly installed and setup Kinetico softeners seem to be very reliable and there are rarely posts on self-help forums complaining about them. It's not unusual to see a poster remark that they had the resin replaced in their 15-20 year old Kinetico and expect another 15-20 years of reliable service.

Kinetico softeners are not cheap and the end user should decide for themselves if they are a wise investment... many decide that in the long run they are and seem quite satisfied.

I am not connected with Kinetico in any way.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 09:49 am
m3m3m3 wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
Then read all the posts here about water softeners and learn how to correctly size a softener yourself.


huh? I was just looking for some advice.

From searching the forums, it really seems alot of ppl are having problems with Rainsoft. But they are referring to older units....is it still true with newer units?

As water softener specialists, what are your experiences with Kinetico? Thanks in advance!

That was good advice that will serve you well unless you want to rely on gossip and then become a victim of a local softener salesman that shows up and does their damnedest over a few hours to sell you one of their high priced softeners.

Here are some comments about Kinetico softeners.

The Kinetico is an alternating twin tank type softener. The vast majority of homes do not need a twin tank type softener. Sized correctly and using the same type and volume of resin, Kinetico uses Sybron C-249 regular and fine mesh resins, any softener will have the same salt efficiency.

AND if you count up their daily regenerations times whatever gallons of water they use for each regeneration, and then compare it to say a softener regenerating only once every 8 days, the Kinetico will use more total water and usually more salt.

All twin tank type softeners cause you to share your water pressure with the water flow to drain of the softener every time one of the tanks regenerates. You have to be using water to get any of them to regenerate.

Kinetico was recently sold to a French company and IIRC the article stated the number of dealers at roughly 500. I could look that up if needed.

H20man is just outside Atlanta GA and says there is no Kinetico dealer in his local area. I'm currently in PA, was born here and know the surrounding area and have sold and serviced water treatment equipment here in 7-8 counties for 20 years. The closest and only Kinetico dealers, two of them, are roughly 30 miles apart (north south) and 45 miles west of here. For 13 years I lived 7 miles from the one to the south and about 22 miles south of the one to the north of there. I competed very well with both of them. I two sell twin tank softeners, using three Fleck control valves. And now a pair of softeners using Clack control valves with an alternating controller. As far as twins go, that pair can not be beat by any other twin tank type softener.

The population within a 50 mile radius of my location is roughly 500,000. Two thirds of those people will have their own wells. That's more than large enough to allow 3-4 additional Kinetico dealers. There are reasons they don't have more. Both of those dealers can sell exactly the same Autotrol, Clack, Erie and Fleck that I do. Both sell Fleck.

In the same area there are many plumbers, well drillers, big box stores, pump and plumbing supply houses and at least three dozen other dealers selling water treatment equipment including softeners. And some here say I can't compete....

I say learn all you can about softeners and learn how to size one, then decide if you want to be a DIYer and repair your softener when needed or want to be dependent on a local dealer at their prices. If you want to be a DIYer, then look for a softener with a Clack WS-1 control valve on it. That would be a good choice if you stay local too. Any dealer selling Autotrol, Fleck or Erie can get Clack or it's parts, if they want to. Sad fact is dumb local dealers normally don't want to service anything they didn't sell.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 11:10 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
Sad fact is dumb local dealers normally don't want to service anything they didn't sell.


Local water treatment professionals know how to service what they sell and stock parts to do so.

Not dumb dealers, these smart local dealers sell what they know works because they have to service it if it doesn't. Servicing lesser quality product sold by long distance sellers is not their responsibility nor are they interested in being blamed for someone else's product failing or having a customer angry at them for not stocking parts for a lesser quality product that they choose not to sell.

That position is not unique to water treatment professionals and is the shared and common practice of many professional businesses who maintain a service and parts department to support THEIR customers and the products they do choose to sell..

As always, the bitterness of no service lingers long after the sweetness of low price is gone Exclamation
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 07:20 pm
From someone that has never sold or serviced a softener...
justalurker wrote:
Local water treatment professionals know how to service what they sell and stock parts to do so.


As I said. Sad fact is dumb local dealers normally don't want to service anything they didn't sell.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 07:34 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:


As I said. Sad fact is dumb local dealers normally don't want to service anything they didn't sell.


Let that be a lesson to all consumers that purchase systems online... you're on you're own when you need service.

Consumers are better off dealing directly with a local H20 professional for sales, installation and service.
0 Replies
 
justalurker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 07:37 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
As I said. Sad fact is dumb local dealers normally don't want to service anything they didn't sell.


From someone who doesn't service anything he sells.

Gary Slusser wrote:
From someone that has never sold or serviced a softener...


Don't sell softeners but servicing quite a few and with 25+ years background and experience in service industries... and in every industry there were and always are ethically challenged hucksters only interested in the quick buck who sell, expect local people to provide service, and bad mouth the local people when they won't service the huckster's junk.

You continue to remind us that... the bitterness of NO SERVICE lingers long after the sweetness of low price is gone.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 09:16 pm
Sorry, you're wrong again. My customer doesn't want to call anyone to fix their softener, including me if possible. So I do everything that can be done to make them self sufficient.

Very few of my online customers have had any problems. The first one from back in 2002 emailed me about 6 weeks ago about neutralizer mineral. I told him to call local dealers to find one that stocks it so he could save some money compared to my delivered price. BTW, I sold two softeners today to guys that mentioned your posts here. It was ugly!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 06:40 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
BTW, I sold two softeners today to guys that mentioned your posts here. It was ugly!


LOL... I've helped many, many consumers purchase EcoWater systems from their local EcoWater dealer since you started posting here.
I have not profited from any of the transactions. It is beautiful! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 07:08 am
I'm glad I could help.

Since I've been posting here I've been getting calls from quite a few Rainsoft owners and prospective owners and I've been able to solve their problems and save them thousands of dollars. I've helped some get the thing removed and helped them get their money back and then a great softener for less than $700 in most cases. Most of that type were victims of Home Depot's arrangement with Rainsoft or their dealers.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 07:17 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
Most of that type were victims of Home Depot's arrangement with Rainsoft or their dealers.


I think we can agree that consumers should avoid buying RainSoft equipment. There are several better options available.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 08:15 am
I also think there are many better choices than Ecowater.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 08:35 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
I also think there are many better choices than Ecowater.


What a surprise Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
 

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