Don't tell me there's any proof for creationism.

Joe Nation wrote:

RL, I didn't qualify your question. You tried to qualify my answer by adding the word "inherently" after the fact.

That is certainly the implication of your statement:

Joe Nation wrote:

real life wrote:
What specific belief of 'Fundamentalism' do you consider 'dangerous'?

The belief that a supernatural being speaks to them.

That belief then underpins any action taken in order to be in compliance with the words of the supernatural being and greater respect is demanded for those actions even when those actions are clearly unethical.

Deny it if you wish. It won't do any good.

I also asked upon what basis you judged ANY behavior to be 'unethical' and you tried the ol' bait and switch to discuss society's role in making law (i.e . declaring something 'illegal' not 'unethical')

You're a slippery character, Joe. You supporting Hilly or Obama this time out?

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Hello RL.

Still dodging them arrows I see. :wink: How's Mrs. RL doing?

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In a word "Wha?"

There is no such implication in what I said except in your own mind. Deny that all you want.

You still have not commented on the first part of my statement, the part that's important, but difficult for you to face.

Quote:

What specific belief of 'Fundamentalism' do you consider 'dangerous'?

Quote:

The belief that a supernatural being speaks to them.

Asked and answered.

And met with silence.

You want to talk about ethics? Good. First, let's hear you out on the belief that some supernatural entity communicates with human beings.

Joe(There's a baseball team in LA ought to sue RL for trademark infringement. Very Happy

)Nation

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Joe Nation wrote:

In a word "Wha?"

There is no such implication in what I said except in your own mind. Deny that all you want.

You still have not commented on the first part of my statement, the part that's important, but difficult for you to face.

Quote:
What specific belief of 'Fundamentalism' do you consider 'dangerous'?

Quote:
The belief that a supernatural being speaks to them.

Asked and answered.

And met with silence.

You want to talk about ethics? Good. First, let's hear you out on the belief that some supernatural entity communicates with human beings.

Joe(There's a baseball team in LA ought to sue RL for trademark infringement. )Nation

The reason I asked you to expand on ethics is that you followed

Quote:

The belief that a supernatural being speaks to them.

with

Quote:

That belief then underpins any action taken in order to be in compliance with the words of the supernatural being and greater respect is demanded for those actions even when those actions are clearly unethical.

and NOT with any proof that such a belief was 'dangerous'. Instead , YOU are the one who tried to denigrate :

Quote:

The belief that a supernatural being speaks to them.

with an appeal to ethics.

You're a slippery one, Joe. C'mon now really.....Obama or Hilly? Both pretty slick role models. I'm sure you admire the ability of both to spin. C'mon now.

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baddog1 wrote:

Hello RL.

Still dodging them arrows I see. :wink: How's Mrs. RL doing?

hey baddog,

Whether the arrows hit or miss , makes no difference to me.

Mrs RL is doing very fine. She's put up with me longer than any of these clowns. Laughing

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rl

Quote:

Mrs RL is doing very fine. She's put up with me longer than any of these clowns.

So she thinks that you have no idea about what you speak also? Laughing

Why is it that, whenever RL gets cornered , he always defaults to faith/morals/yadda yadda.

The original topic has been rather simple and , outside of fact-free assertions about "Floods" and "Absence of evidence" , Ive seen nothing from any of the Creationists that even remotely supports anything they confess.

I propose an A2K get-together at the Creationism Museum in Ky. Lets see how "liberal" the Creationists would be with a band of SCience buffs visiting and lecturing our children about how "animatronic triceratops" with saddles on, are about as scientific as the works of Baum or the Brothers Grimm.

How the CReationists stand firm in their cute beliefs in the face of ever mounting evidence that soundly refutes their beliefs , is charming. A waste of brain-power, but nonetheless charming. Its like being a successful liar, they have to keep making up new qualifiers to explain away natural occurences in the earths history, and they have to remembre these stories which conflict with all evidence.

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real life wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:
In a word "Wha?"

There is no such implication in what I said except in your own mind. Deny that all you want.

You still have not commented on the first part of my statement, the part that's important, but difficult for you to face.

Quote:
What specific belief of 'Fundamentalism' do you consider 'dangerous'?

Quote:
The belief that a supernatural being speaks to them.

Asked and answered.

And met with silence.

You want to talk about ethics? Good. First, let's hear you out on the belief that some supernatural entity communicates with human beings.

Joe(There's a baseball team in LA ought to sue RL for trademark infringement. )Nation

The reason I asked you to expand on ethics is that you followed

Quote:
The belief that a supernatural being speaks to them.

with

Quote:
That belief then underpins any action taken in order to be in compliance with the words of the supernatural being and greater respect is demanded for those actions even when those actions are clearly unethical.

and NOT with any proof that such a belief was 'dangerous'. Instead , YOU are the one who tried to denigrate :

Quote:
The belief that a supernatural being speaks to them.

with an appeal to ethics.

You're a slippery one, Joe. C'mon now really.....Obama or Hilly? Both pretty slick role models. I'm sure you admire the ability of both to spin. C'mon now.

So.... still,,,,, once more:

Quote:

You want to talk about ethics? Good. First, let's hear you out on the belief that some supernatural entity communicates with human beings.

Which is, after all, an answer to the question you asked.

You have some nerve calling the people here clowns and apparently including me within that designation. How rude.

Farmerman, if you ever decide to organize a trip to the Creation "Museum", let me know.

Joe(I'd love to be at your elbow)Nation

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Im betting we get kicked out just like certain people at the screenings of Ben STeins movie.

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Joe Nation wrote:

You have some nerve calling the people here clowns and apparently including me within that designation. How rude.

You have an awfully thin skin for someone who routinely implies far worse about Christians.

My comment was meant in a light hearted way and included the inference that others must somehow 'put up with me'.

I apologize if you were offended by that. (Have you no sense of humor?)

Seriously, I could pull some of your recent posts which imply Christians are either mentally ill, totally unable to use rational thought or dangerous to society (as we are currently discussing), which are MUCH more offensive.

But either you don't get it or don't care.

Whatever,(yeah I said it , Whatever) Joe

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rl

Quote:

Seriously, I could pull some of your recent posts which imply Christians are either mentally ill, totally unable to use rational thought or dangerous to society

I dont EVER recall Joe saying that Christians were dangerous.

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farmerman wrote:

rl
Quote:
Seriously, I could pull some of your recent posts which imply Christians are either mentally ill, totally unable to use rational thought or dangerous to society

I dont EVER recall Joe saying that Christians were dangerous.

FM:

He still refuses to address my answer to his question. That's revealing.
This last dodge was my fault though, I shouldn't have given him a distraction.

(Sigh)

I really wanted to hear what he had to say on the subject: The belief that a supernatural being speaks to human beings.

My guess is he knows that's a belief that is dangerous, he just can't bring himself to say it.

Okay.

Joe(that joe, one of the funniest people on A2K)Nation

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farmerman wrote:

Why is it that, whenever RL gets cornered , he always defaults to faith/morals/yadda yadda.

Why don't you notice that I was responding to Ros's statement that Fundamentalism was 'dangerous' and to Joe's assertion regarding ethics?

Follow the flow of the thread if you want to know why I'm addressing those issues, fm.

I shouldn't have to tell you this.

I'm not the one who sidetracks the thread, my friend. Look to your own camp.

You say you want to discuss Creation, but you immediately make reference to the Flood. Laughing

I rarely discuss the Flood in this thread unless someone else brings it up. Then I may try to give a brief response and return to the subject. More often I ignore it because it's off topic.

I enjoy talking with some A2Kers such as ros and yourself, but unfortunately of late you seem more inclined to dish out the ad homs , such as your recent post where you imply that Creationists are like 'successful liars'.

It's really too bad, but not a thing I can do to change it. I won't sit here and trade insults with you.

Well, hope you're having a great day, fm. Take good care.

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Joe Nation wrote:

farmerman wrote:
rl
Quote:
Seriously, I could pull some of your recent posts which imply Christians are either mentally ill, totally unable to use rational thought or dangerous to society

I dont EVER recall Joe saying that Christians were dangerous.

FM:

He still refuses to address my answer to his question. That's revealing.
This last dodge was my fault though, I shouldn't have given him a distraction.

(Sigh)

I really wanted to hear what he had to say on the subject: The belief that a supernatural being speaks to human beings.

My guess is he knows that's a belief that is dangerous, he just can't bring himself to say it.

Okay.

Joe(that joe, one of the funniest people on A2K)Nation

Well , you said at first that it was dangerous.

When challenged, you claimed instead that it led to 'unethical' behavior.

You couldn't discuss why it was 'unethical' so you veered into a discussion of 'illegal' instead.

But then you fudged and said, 'well, I didn't say that it's ALWAYS dangerous'.

You got more dodges than Chrysler, Joe.

Can you show that it is NOT possible for God to speak to human beings, Joe?

If not, and you admit that it IS possible, why is it dangerous?

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You've misconstrued the conversation in several ways, but nevermind.

Quote:

why is it dangerous?

I've already answered that a couple of times, but hey..

..the belief that a supernatural being speaks to human beings is dangerous because it provides a license to take any action deemed necessary by the supposed hearers.

Any action, real life, and no one can have any complaint or right to deny them because they have the power to proceed according to them and, I would guess, according to you, because you believe such a thing as supernatural communication is real.

Where do you draw the line, real life?

If a person came to you and said "God told me last night that my cancer would healed." you'd rejoice with him or her, right?

But, if that same person came to you and said "God told me that my cancer would be healed only if I killed all the doctors who have been poisoning me with their chemotherapy drugs." would you say "Maranatha!?" Would you say that it must be God's will?

What would you do?

Joe(get him a gun or call 9-1-1?)Nation

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Joe Nation wrote:

You've misconstrued the conversation in several ways, but nevermind.

Quote:
why is it dangerous?

I've already answered that a couple of times, but hey..

..the belief that a supernatural being speaks to human beings is dangerous because it provides a license to take any action deemed necessary by the supposed hearers.

Any action, real life, and no one can have any complaint or right to deny them because they have the power to proceed according to them and, I would guess, according to you, because you believe such a thing as supernatural communication is real.

Where do you draw the line, real life?

If a person came to you and said "God told me last night that my cancer would healed." you'd rejoice with him or her, right?

But, if that same person came to you and said "God told me that my cancer would be healed only if I killed all the doctors who have been poisoning me with their chemotherapy drugs." would you say "Maranatha!?" Would you say that it must be God's will?

What would you do?

Joe(get him a gun or call 9-1-1?)Nation

Murder is obviously inconsistent with Jesus' teaching.

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It's not Jesus speaking, according to the patient, 'tis God Himself, Creator of the Universe. Are you going to question this person's belief?

Joe(iamwhoam)Nation

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Jesus is God Himself, Creator of the Universe.

But that aside, let me ask you about murder.

Is something only unethical if it is illegal?

What if you lived in a country whose government policy was genocidal.

Would participating in the killing be unethical, since you are following the law?

If so, upon what basis independent of the law are you declaring something 'unethical' or 'morally wrong'?

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real life wrote:

Jesus is God Himself, Creator of the Universe.

You're missing Joe's point. Almost desperately.

He's holding the mirror right in front of your face, but you're afraid to look.

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Nobody said that the person hearing the voice of the supernatural had ever heard of a Christ or Christianity; he believes there is a Creator, that's all. (this is a Creationist thread, remember?)

If it helps, I will tell you that this person also believes in what I see as the second most dangerous belief of fundamentalism:
(I thought we would have gotten to it by now, but I had no idea of the depth of the mental blindness hereabouts.)
:that's the belief that a supernatural protects some people from disaster while others die, or lose their homes or their families. Oh, and by the way, they must have done something to deserve such fates. Not the good fates, just the bad ones. So, your home was crushed by the tornado, mine wasn't. What is wrong with you?

(I won't mention, even during this NCAA tourney time, the fundamentalist corollary: that God assists in the winning team's winning.)

Nope, God Himself has pointed the way to this man's relief and salvation. The poisoners must die.

Joe(It's as clear as the voice in his head.)Nation

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Joe Nation wrote:

Nobody said that the person hearing the voice of the supernatural had ever heard of a Christ or Christianity; he believes there is a Creator, that's all. (this is a Creationist thread, remember?)

You asked where I[/u][/i] would draw the line.

I don't speak for every person who believes in a creator, I speak for me.

Christians, generally, follow the teachings of Christ and would not accept the idea that murder was ok.

You asked, I answered.

Now, tell me why murder is 'unethical' or 'wrong' if it doesn't happen to be illegal. Upon what do you base your view that it is?

This is the issue YOU brought up, asserting that someone could or would do something 'clearly unethical' if they thought God had told them to.

What makes something 'clearly unethical' ?

Is it majority opinion of their neighbors in a 10 block area, as determined by a poll?

In their county?

Is it only if the action is illegal? And if the law changes tomorrow does the 'unethical' action become 'ethical' ?

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Don't tell me there's any proof for creationism.

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