So, I've blown a few hours of my life wading through this and the evolution thread where RL has been lambasted and I've yet to see him/her respond directly to many of the softballs lobbed their way, much less the tough questions.
It's easy to engage in a dialogue about creation only by citing gaps in evolutionary biology. When asked to support creationism, RL has effectively dodged a sound, fact based, coherent response for fifty-some pages.
What remains, however, is that over the course of time, evolutionary biology is advancing while the Christian doctrine remains in the very same place it has been for centuries....the aforementioned gaps in evolutionary biology are slowly being filled through scientific inquiry and the ability of creationists to adequately defend their position decreases.
What has been asked, is what evidence can you provide for creationism without using gaps in science as your crutch. Seems some of the resident creationists, be they proponents of YE or OE, still want to appeal to the same science (geological record, fossils etc) but want to draw their own illogical conclusions about it.
If creationism is a cut and dry winner in the debate, it would sure be nice to have the creationists just respond to the first post in this thread.
I posted this on the other ID: Science/Religion thread, and it also went unanswered, so I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some info:
Quote:
Supposing we were "intelligently designed" by a being that also tells us to go forth and multiply, and also condemns any sexual activity other than that for reproductions... Why are humans one of the very, very , very few mammals that experience menopause? It seems contradictory that if the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring, that they should be programmed to fail beyond a certain age.
USAFHokie80 wrote:I posted this on the other ID: Science/Religion thread, and it also went unanswered, so I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some info:
Quote:
Supposing we were "intelligently designed" by a being that also tells us to go forth and multiply, and also condemns any sexual activity other than that for reproductions... Why are humans one of the very, very , very few mammals that experience menopause? It seems contradictory that if the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring, that they should be programmed to fail beyond a certain age.
Well, when human's were evolved (and really only up until a few hundred years ago), wasn't the lifespan something like 25-30 years MAX, and the reproductive organs produced enough eggs/sperm for the entire lifespan of the human being....but now through science and sanitation we are living on average through our 60's. I doubt anyone suggests that a few hundred years is long enough to bring about a selective advantage of grandmothers being able to have babies.
What I do wonder is if RL or any other creation believe, believes that people in the OT really lived to be 400, 500, 600 years old, and if they did, did the women still experience menopause in their 40's/50's?
If so, then the reproductive span of a life would be less than 10% in many cases.
USAFHokie80 wrote:I posted this on the other ID: Science/Religion thread, and it also went unanswered, so I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some info:
Quote:
Supposing we were "intelligently designed" by a being that also tells us to go forth and multiply, and also condemns any sexual activity other than that for reproductions... Why are humans one of the very, very , very few mammals that experience menopause? It seems contradictory that if the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring, that they should be programmed to fail beyond a certain age.
Very well done. I await the inevitable non-answer. Truth is, unless you just keep posting this question, they'll think you will forget, or they'll just wait for someone else to post something they can argue with.
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i know. i don't expect them to really answer.
USAFHokie80 wrote:i know. i don't expect them to really answer.
Perhaps the 'them' that you should direct this to is someone who agrees with your premise:
Quote:the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring
Don't know who that would be, but it sounds like a position that an evolutionist would agree with though.
Why else would sexual organs 'evolve' except for reproduction?
real life wrote:USAFHokie80 wrote:i know. i don't expect them to really answer.
Perhaps the 'them' that you should direct this to is someone who agrees with your premise:
Quote:the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring
Don't know who that would be, but it sounds like a position that an evolutionist would agree with though.
Why else would sexual organs 'evolve' except for reproduction?
Yep, and the fact that they stop working sounds like a sensible evolutionary outcome as well, don't you think?
real life wrote:USAFHokie80 wrote:i know. i don't expect them to really answer.
Perhaps the 'them' that you should direct this to is someone who agrees with your premise:
Quote:the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring
Don't know who that would be, but it sounds like a position that an evolutionist would agree with though.
Why else would sexual organs 'evolve' except for reproduction?
I don't agree with that. But that is the stance the bible takes.
baddog1 wrote:USAFHokie80 wrote:real life wrote:USAFHokie80 wrote:i know. i don't expect them to really answer.
Perhaps the 'them' that you should direct this to is someone who agrees with your premise:
Quote:the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring
Don't know who that would be, but it sounds like a position that an evolutionist would agree with though.
Why else would sexual organs 'evolve' except for reproduction?
I don't agree with that. But that is the stance the bible takes.
Really? Please expound.
This should be...........well , not interesting. But kinda like a car wreck, you just can't help but look.
Proceed , Hokie.
Of course it does raise the question of why would God create a brain if he didn't expect people to use it?
And does not using it dishonor the God that made it?
Or the appendix!
Use it! Right now! Use it! Do not dishonor God's design!
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parados wrote:real life wrote:USAFHokie80 wrote:i know. i don't expect them to really answer.
Perhaps the 'them' that you should direct this to is someone who agrees with your premise:
Quote:the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring
Don't know who that would be, but it sounds like a position that an evolutionist would agree with though.
Why else would sexual organs 'evolve' except for reproduction?
Yep, and the fact that they stop working sounds like a sensible evolutionary outcome as well, don't you think?
So, do you agree that Hokie's premise:
Quote:the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring
is an evolutionary one?
If you keep cutting and pasting less and less each time real life you can get farther and farther from the original question.
Let me repost it for you so everyone is reminded of what you are avoiding.
Quote:Supposing we were "intelligently designed" by a being that also tells us to go forth and multiply, and also condemns any sexual activity other than that for reproductions... Why are humans one of the very, very , very few mammals that experience menopause? It seems contradictory that if the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring, that they should be programmed to fail beyond a certain age.
parados wrote:If you keep cutting and pasting less and less each time real life you can get farther and farther from the original question.
Let me repost it for you so everyone is reminded of what you are avoiding.
Quote:Supposing we were "intelligently designed" by a being that also tells us to go forth and multiply, and also condemns any sexual activity other than that for reproductions... Why are humans one of the very, very , very few mammals that experience menopause? It seems contradictory that if the entire purpose of our reproductive organs is to produce offspring, that they should be programmed to fail beyond a certain age.
How am I avoiding this?
I think I've made it clear that I consider this strawman to be ludicrous, having more in common with an evolutionary view than a creation/ID view.
Evolution would very clearly suppose that sexual organs evolved ONLY for the purpose of procreation.
You however have not addressed how menopause (being supposedly a function of evolution) presents a 'survival advantage' consistent with evolutionary principle.
So you don't agree that the Bible says to "go forth and multiply"?
Hmmmm.... interesting.
That's the only way I can see for you to claim this is a "strawman."
real life wrote:You however have not addressed how menopause (being supposedly a function of evolution) presents a 'survival advantage' consistent with evolutionary principle.
Nobody claimed this or implied this.
I think you must have misread the point of the original post.
