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SHUD ENGLAND RESTORE GUN FREEDOM ?

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Nov, 2007 03:53 am
Take away their guns. (If necessary from their cold, dead hands)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/us/21scotus.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

Signs of common sense from the USA at last.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Nov, 2007 04:44 am
I'd say that if they don't want to become a terminally violent sh!thole like the US, then they should leave their laws as they are.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Nov, 2007 04:45 am
And some immigration laws that permanently bans raving lunatics like the nutjob author of this thread wouldn't go astray as well.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Nov, 2007 05:55 pm
Wilso wrote:
And some immigration laws that permanently bans raving lunatics like the nutjob author of this thread wouldn't go astray as well.


Right. Maybe some freedom lover will shoot him.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Nov, 2007 04:03 am
Politics!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Dec, 2007 03:03 am
Quote:
The gun lords' deadly legacy

Police are hunting for 3,000 firearms sold to criminals by a father and son, as moves are made to plug gun law loopholes. Mark Townsend reports


Sunday December 9, 2007
The Observer

Three years after they were jailed, police are still unearthing the murderous legacy of Britain's most prolific gun barons. From their ramshackle store in the Derbyshire village of Little Eaton, an unlikely father and son duo presided over an underworld racket that provided Uzi sub-machine guns and AK-47 rifles to organised crime syndicates.
They sold thousands of deactivated weapons - guns that had been made safe - but then included in the manifest detailed instructions and kits showing how to turn them into live firearms.

Former egg farmer William Greenwood, 76, may have suffered from a heart condition and his 42-year-old son Mitchell from cerebral palsy, but to police they were the undisputed 'quartermasters of the criminal underworld'. The pair were found guilty in March 2004 and jailed for seven years.
At the close of their trial, detectives said their modus operandi underlined an urgent need for a ban on the possession of deactivated guns, weapons that have been modified under government legislation so they cannot be fired, but are often converted by criminals back into live firearms.

Now the Home Office is preparing to make it illegal to buy and import deactivated firearms. It follows written warnings from senior firearms intelligence officers that new gun laws have failed to protect the public. An officer told The Observer: 'Finally, we are hearing that the government is listening to our concerns over the current loophole in the law as regards deactivated guns.'

A briefing paper sent by senior firearms intelligence officers to Home Secretary Jacqui Smith warned that a system that allows anyone to acquire legally a deactivated gun without a firearms certificate had to be addressed. Citing the Greenwoods as a warning, it pointed out that a law that still allowed rogue businesses to sell guns to potential criminals was unacceptable and at odds with ministerial pledges over tackling gun crime. The paper, written by a number of senior officers, some from the new National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NaBIS), came in the wake of the shooting of 11-year-old Rhys Jones in Liverpool this summer. His murder is linked to gangs known to use deactivated weapons.

The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, which came into force in November last year, banned imitation firearms but, according to police, did not go far enough. Instead, organised criminals turned to deactivated firearms. In the past year the problem of reactivated firearms has emerged as a major headache for firearms officers, with hundreds of shootings involving their use. According to NaBIS intelligence, one in 10 shootings now involves a reactivated weapon.

Meanwhile, the legacy of the Greenwoods' empire dogs the police. A national inquiry has been launched to reinvestigate the whereabouts of the 3,000 weapons they supplied

'Huge numbers are out there, they have gone right across the UK,' said a senior police source.

Provisional inquiries reveal that they have fallen into the hands of paedophile rings, drug cartels and extortion rackets. A cache of 100 weapons supplied by the pair was recently traced to a home in rural Devon, the firearms piled high in cavities within the property's walls. So far, guns supplied by the Greenwoods have been recovered from at least eight murder scenes, gangland shootings and a loyalist paramilitary arms cache. Guns distributed by the father and son have been traced to at least 65 crime scenes.

During their trial, the court heard how the Greenwoods gave criminal clients 'nods and winks' to indicate that the guns could be restored. Police posing as customers caught the pair selling the firearms along with equipment to reconvert them into lethal weapons.

An Observer investigation can reveal that criminals can still acquire over the internet deactivated guns that can be converted to fire live ammunition for as little as £250. Weapons being offered for sale on British-based websites last week included a deactivated Uzi 9mm with screw-in silencer for £995 and a deactivated FBP submachine gun for £395. Many of the guns offered were deactivated before 1995, when rules on converting the weapons were less strict, which make them much easier to reactivate. Sources at NaBIS estimate that a skilled armourer can reactivate a weapon in as little as two hours. Although the trade in these guns is legal and no licence is required to buy the weapons, officers have no doubts that major criminals are converting them into lethal firearms.

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Dec, 2007 03:03 am
continued from above
Quote:
One website, Arundel Militaria, last week listed deactivated AK47s and a deactivated Bren machine gun among the weapons it has recently sold. Claiming that the company specialises 'in pre-1995 deactivated sub-machine guns', an employee said they had no knowledge that firearms they had sold had been reactivated and that they would not sell to anyone they considered suspect.

The police also harbour wider concerns relating to Britain's vulnerability to gun crime. In particular they warn that tens of thousands of live firearms are being legally imported into the UK through official means and deactivated. They are then sent to registered firearms dealers where the risk of them falling into criminal hands remains.

'A lot of weapons are coming into the UK and we know some dealers are dealing guns on the very edge of legality,' said a firearms intelligence officer. A number of dealers are thought to be among the 118 people arrested two weeks ago in a series of raids that recovered 1,300 real and imitation firearms from Manchester, London, Liverpool and Birmingham.

It was the shooting of Rhys Jones that proved the final straw for police. Killed with a single bullet in the car park of Liverpool's Fir Tree pub, his death signalled a new low in Britain's gun crime. Police are still pursuing the theory that Rhys was caught in crossfire between members of the Nogzy and Crocky, rival gangs from the Liverpool council estates of Norris Green and Croxteth. Both are heavily armed with reactivated weapons and though the murder weapon has yet to be discovered, it remains likely Rhys was murdered with a weapon legally imported into the UK and converted.

Latest intelligence confirms the port of Liverpool as a main entry point for guns, with hundreds traced to factories in Lithuania.

Along the East Lancs Road, estimates suggest that half the firearms on the streets of Manchester are converted. An influx of ME38 pistols is believed to be behind the frequency of shootings in a triangle south of the city centre. Officers have tracked about 300 ME Magnums and ME38 Pockets imported legally from Germany and converted in a derelict north Manchester mill. Their prevalence came to prominence after one, buried in a front garden by an anxious mother, was discovered by her eldest son, who accidentally shot dead his 12-year-old sister, Kamilah Peniston, earlier this year.

According to police, the number of 'high-quality' weapons in the UK is low. Provisional analysis by NaBIS confirms that, contrary to myth, Britain is not awash with guns. Current prices reflect their rarity. A converted Russian gas-powered Baikal sells for around £500, though the premium prices are reserved for guns that are 'clean'. 'Guns used in previous crime depreciate vastly. You don't want to spend an extra five years inside for a crime you did not commit,' said a police source.

For now, the precise quantity of guns in the UK remains a topic of conjecture. One police estimate suggests there are 120,000 deactivated firearms dating from pre-1995 on the black market. Officers last week would go only so far as to say there were a 'huge number'.




Firearms in figures

18 per cent: the year-on-year rise in firearms-related homicides in 2006-07. Home Office figures reveal that there were 58 firearms-related homicides in 2006-07 compared with 49 in the previous year.

410 People seriously injured after being shot in 2006-07, more than one a day.

1,444 Young people prosecuted for firearms offences in 2005, a rise of 20 per cent over four years.

8 Young people who have lost their lives in shootings, six in London, one in Manchester and one - 11-year-old Rhys Jones - in Liverpool.

3,000 Firearms incidents recorded in Greater Manchester during 15 months (seven gun-related incidents every day).
0 Replies
 
hanno
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 12:12 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
You come out with all these silly ideas because you are desperate to justify the fact that you like playing with guns.
You ought to know better at your age. Put away your playthings and start acting like a man.


I've never heard it put so succinctly, but I've often thought it would boil down to something like that. I mean, you've got these socially conscious civic hero types who know what the right thing is and are ready to do it, and how can you blame them, they get laid and have an excuse to drive cute cars with free scheduled maintenance. But beneath the silver Toyotas and the frosted tips beat the hearts of men in a sense, and when they see someone acting in a manner inconsistent with what gets them their jellyroll and justifies the easter-egg they drive - whoa, lookout.

I don't own a gun, and have never fired a center fire cartridge. The line above alone is proof however that I live in a better country because of guns. If it weren't for guns they'd have more time to be on me about my cars emissions or the salt in my food telling me what I'm doing that I don't really need to be doing. But people dying just to keep me unbothered? How monstrous of me...

The difference with guns is unlike my dual 1 1/4 inch pipes and my tasty 25 cent Ramen - guns in America are not only a target of nanny culture but the antithesis of it. That is to say a gun, if you choose to own one or have the option to, is the item, that if environmentalists, nutritionalists and cops all fail to save you, or just plain decide to screw you, will let you still have your say in the matter. I'm not saying you won't have a better chance of being a victim of violence without gun control (although there are statistics that might) - just that with a gun or the personal choice not to own one your fate is to the largest extent possible in your own hands - and if self-reliance isn't what we're about then kiss my ass goodbye, for I shall move to Mexico.

Go ahead, tell me I'm hallucinating - but cops go bad, bureaucrats screw up or sell out - and even here in the Wild West only 1/1000 gets crimed with a gun annually - so if we're talking about statistics one way or the other I'd rather take them on in such a manner that if they concern me that I have a part to play in the outcome.

I think my outlook maps to England effectivly.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 08:28 am
I bet you love your car as much as David loves his gun
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 08:37 am
McTag wrote:
Take away their guns. (If necessary from their cold, dead hands)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/us/21scotus.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

Signs of common sense from the USA at last.


Yeah, right. The NYTimes is a bastion of liberal, urban dumbasses that thinks it's great fun when a coyote visits a sub shop in NYC. They are beyond help - posting them as having any common sense at all makes me Laughing!

Oh, wait, I checked the article - it's just reporting about the fact the Supreme Court is going to tell D.C. that is isn't going to do anything because D.C. isn't really a state..... What really makes me Laughing then is McTag!! You big urban sissy!
0 Replies
 
hanno
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 06:52 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
I bet you love your car as much as David loves his gun


Nobody could ever love their gun as much as I love my car. What's it to you? Just something else you can't have because you're a socialist?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 03:03 am
hanno wrote:
Nobody could ever love their gun as much as I love my car.
An interesting admission, though I'd like to hear from OmSigDavid on this.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Dec, 2007 03:05 am
Don't encourage him.
0 Replies
 
 

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