Where?

kate4christ03 wrote:

Quote:
It means that as scripture states, there will be a time,(the day of the Lord; Christ's second coming) when a remnant of the natural israel will see the Messiah coming out of the sky, recognize he is the one they pierced and they will weep with sorrow and remorse. and they will repent and God will forgive them and save them.

i am posting this again because neither of you have responded.

God, however, wisely completes "the full number" of spiritual Israel (144,000) by bringing believing Gentiles into the Christian congregation. "And in this manner [not by the Jewish nation's change of heart] all [spiritual] Israel will be saved."

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Quote:

that's very fitting coming from him, since he was one.

if you take paul out of the bible, there wouldn't be nearly as much for people to argue about. he liked to attack christians, then he had a conversion to attacking non-christians instead. very christlike, you can tell he came a hundred years late.

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tinygiraffe wrote:

Quote:

that's very fitting coming from him, since he was one.

if you take paul out of the bible, there wouldn't be nearly as much for people to argue about. he liked to attack christians, then he had a conversion to attacking non-christians instead. very christlike, you can tell he came a hundred years late.

I am grateful to Christ Jesus our Lord, who imparted power to me, because he considered me faithful by assigning me to a ministry, 13 although formerly I was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insolent man. Nevertheless, I was shown mercy, because I was ignorant and acted with a lack of faith. 14 But the undeserved kindness of our Lord abounded exceedingly along with faith and love that is in connection with Christ Jesus. 15 Faithful and deserving of full acceptance is the saying that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost. 16 Nevertheless, the reason why I was shown mercy was that by means of me as the foremost case Christ Jesus might demonstrate all his long-suffering for a sample of those who are going to rest their faith on him for everlasting life. (1 Timothy 1:12-16)

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lindsey is an ahmilinialist is he not? i can't remember. Regardless i disagree with this view. The bible, in my opinion is clear that God isn't finished with the natural jew. The prophecies that i have given are clear, to be of a future event (THE day of the Lord) as Zecheriah states. and as of yet this event hasn't happened. CHrist hasnt stepped foot on Mt Olive, hasnt caused an earthquake creating a live river out of jerusalem. That hasnt happened. So i cant take these verses to be anything other than futuristic. Also i might add, nowhere in scripture are christians listed under the 12 tribes of Israel. The bible says we are grafted in the israel, but it also says that God can graft back in the broken branches.
Romans 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, WHO WERE natural branches be grafted back in
Plus you cant forget this verse.
Romans 11:25 For i do not desire brethern(christians) that you be ignorant of this mystery lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to ISRAEL(natural jews) until the fullness of the gentiles has come. 28 COncerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake(cant be speaking of christians bc we arent enemies of the gospel) but concerning ELECTIOn they are beloved for the sake of the Father.
Paul was warning the gentile christians in vs 25 not to be conceited that they have been called and Israel rejected. Bc he states that one day (after the fullness of the gentile) That God will save a remnant of israel.
This warning is timeless. We christians can't be so full of ourselves to believe that God only loves us. He loves the jews also and will one day call a remnant back to him.
You cant tell me these verses are not speaking of the natural jew. Paul calls them enemies of the Gospel (which cant be christians) and he calls them elect bc of Gods love. This cant be unsaved gentiles (bc they arent spiritual israel if they arent saved yet) and there are no scriptures in the bible that call unsaved gentiles spiritual israel)in reference to future salvation). This is clearly speaking of a time (after the fullness of the gentile) when God will refine a remnant of the natural jews and save them.

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kate4christ03 wrote:

lindsey is an ahmilinialist is he not? i can't remember. Regardless i disagree with this view. The bible, in my opinion is clear that God isn't finished with the natural jew. The prophecies that i have given are clear, to be of a future event (THE day of the Lord) as Zecheriah states. and as of yet this event hasn't happened. CHrist hasnt stepped foot on Mt Olive, hasnt caused an earthquake creating a live river out of jerusalem. That hasnt happened. So i cant take these verses to be anything other than futuristic. Also i might add, nowhere in scripture are christians listed under the 12 tribes of Israel. The bible says we are grafted in the israel, but it also says that God can graft back in the broken branches.
Romans 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, WHO WERE natural branches be grafted back in
Plus you cant forget this verse.
Romans 11:25 For i do not desire brethern(christians) that you be ignorant of this mystery lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to ISRAEL(natural jews) until the fullness of the gentiles has come. 28 COncerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake(cant be speaking of christians bc we arent enemies of the gospel) but concerning ELECTIOn they are beloved for the sake of the Father.
Paul was warning the gentile christians in vs 25 not to be conceited that they have been called and Israel rejected. Bc he states that one day (after the fullness of the gentile) That God will save a remnant of israel.
This warning is timeless. We christians can't be so full of ourselves to believe that God only loves us. He loves the jews also and will one day call a remnant back to him.
You cant tell me these verses are not speaking of the natural jew. Paul calls them enemies of the Gospel (which cant be christians) and he calls them elect bc of Gods love. This cant be unsaved gentiles (bc they arent spiritual israel if they arent saved yet) and there are no scriptures in the bible that call unsaved gentiles spiritual israel)in reference to future salvation). This is clearly speaking of a time (after the fullness of the gentile) when God will refine a remnant of the natural jews and save them.

I respect your views and will leave it at that.

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ok ....is lindsay an ahmilinnialist ? i know hanagraf is but i cant remember with lindsay?

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Hal Lindsey is premillenial, pretribulationalist. You would probably agree with him regarding your views concerning the Jews.

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One other comment regarding the word UNTIL.

until hell freezes over (informal)
if you say that someone can do something until hell freezes over, you mean they will not get the result they want. They can talk until hell freezes over - they won't make me change my mind.

Cambridge International Dictionary of Idioms © Cambridge University Press 1998

until hell freezes over
forever. I will fight for these children till hell freezes over.
Usage notes: also used in the form when hell freezes over never: They said they would get back together when hell freezes over.

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ok ty RL. I just wonder why his quote (that hank produced) shows that he isn't a dispensationalist? From my experience most that believe that God is done with the jews, are ahmilinialists(sorry bad spelling). I wonder if this quote is one that was made before he studied the bible and came to the correct, obvious views of pretrib/premill? Very Happy

just for curiousity sake what are your beliefs RL? Frequently You and I are on the same page in a debate, and i'm curious about your denominational affiliation?
IF your curious, Im a southern baptist christian.

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kate4christ03 wrote:

ok ty RL. I just wonder why his quote (that hank produced) shows that he isn't a dispensationalist? From my experience most that believe that God is done with the jews, are ahmilinialists(sorry bad spelling). I wonder if this quote is one that was made before he studied the bible and came to the correct, obvious views of pretrib/premill?
just for curiousity sake what are your beliefs RL? Frequently You and I are on the same page in a debate, and i'm curious about your denominational affiliation?
IF your curious, Im a southern baptist christian.

hi kate,

I think you may have misattributed part of his post to Lindsey. The quote from Lindsey seems to be a short one. Hal Lindsey is a dispensationalist.

I used to be , but don't find a lot of support for dispensationalism/pretrib in scripture. A lot of the proof texts are used in an inferential manner.

i.e. 'Christ delivers us from judgement' well see there, there is no way we could be here during the 7 years if thats the case, right? This assumes that the timeline of the dispensationalists MUST be correct and that the 'delivers us from judgement' phrase MUST mean absence .

The history of the pretrib doctrine is interesting. It is nowhere to be found until the mid 19th century. It would seem unusual that NOBODY in all of Christendom had it right until a small group started teaching it in the mid 1800's.

As for denominational affiliation, I don't have one. My church is an independent (boy are they. My pastor describes it as like trying to herd cats.) group, with people from lots of different backgrounds (baptist, lutheran, catholic, church of christ, charismatic, fundamental, among many others) . You could generally describe them as theologically conservative Protestant.

A lot of folks in my church are dispensationalists, but I'm not and neither is my pastor. But it's not an issue that is a make or break among us. In fact, it rarely comes up.

The NT passages referring to Israel are mostly (not all) directed to the spiritual heirs of Israel, the church. The passage in Romans that you cite obviously shows that God is also grafting Jews into the vine. Several Jewish friends at my church would agree with that.

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The word is spelled 'amillennialist', which anyone taking the trouble to Google the word would soon find out.

It is quite obvious from the direction of this thread that the light has been turned off.

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Thanks RL. Yeah i went back and read what hank posted. I see what your saying. I did a little studying on lindsay and while i agree with his pretrib/ premillenial views, i think he is a bit to hard core on it for me. Almost fanatical. As a southern baptist, the pretrib/premil view isn't one that defines all sbc members. We have several in our church that are amillenialists, and other various sorts. I don't think that a person's eschatological view makes or breaks their salvation. But it's interesting to discuss and debate.

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Quote:

The word is spelled 'amillennialist', which anyone taking the trouble to Google the word would soon find out.

It is quite obvious from the direction of this thread that the light has been turned off.

MEOW!!!!!!!your claws seem to come out when you run out of noteworthy points to reinforce your views.
Very Happy

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yeah, what kind of idiot doesn't know how to spell "amillennialist"?

get lazy about spellchecking, kate, pretty soon people won't even know how to spell even the most simple words, like pseudopseudohypoparathyroidism, floccinaucinihilipilification, and

acetylseryltyrosylserylisoleucylthreonylserylprolylserylglutaminyl-
phenylalanylvalylphenylalanylleucylserylserylvalyltryptophylalanyl-
aspartylprolylisoleucylglutamylleucylleucylasparaginylvalylcysteinyl-
threonylserylserylleucylglycylasparaginylglutaminylphenylalanyl-
glutaminylthreonylglutaminylglutaminylalanylarginylthreonylthreonyl-
glutaminylvalylglutaminylglutaminylphenylalanylserylglutaminylvalyl-
tryptophyllysylprolylphenylalanylprolylglutaminylserylthreonylvalyl-
arginylphenylalanylprolylglycylaspartylvalyltyrosyllysylvalyltyrosyl-
arginyltyrosylasparaginylalanylvalylleucylaspartylprolylleucylisoleucyl-
threonylalanylleucylleucylglycylthreonylphenylalanylaspartylthreonyl-
arginylasparaginylarginylisoleucylisoleucylglutamylvalylglutamyl-
asparaginylglutaminylglutaminylserylprolylthreonylthreonylalanylglutamyl-
threonylleucylaspartylalanylthreonylarginylarginylvalylaspartylaspartyl-
alanylthreonylvalylalanylisoleucylarginylserylalanylasparaginylisoleucyl-
asparaginylleucylvalylasparaginylglutamylleucylvalylarginylglycyl-
threonylglycylleucyltyrosylasparaginylglutaminlasparaginylthreonyl-
phenylalanylglutamylserylmethionylserylglycylleucylvalyltryptophyl-
threonylserylalanylprolylalanylserine!

show a bit of respect for god's language, ENGLISH! kay?

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ugh, i apologize kate. it wasn't
acetylseryltyrosylserylisoleucylthreonylserylprolylserylglutaminyl-
phenylalanylvalylphenylalanylleucylserylserylvalyltryptophylalanyl-
aspartylprolylisoleucylglutamylleucylleucylasparaginylvalylcysteinyl-
threonylserylserylleucylglycylasparaginylglutaminylphenylalanyl-
glutaminylthreonylglutaminylglutaminylalanylarginylthreonylthreonyl-
glutaminylvalylglutaminylglutaminylphenylalanylserylglutaminylvalyl-
tryptophyllysylprolylphenylalanylprolylglutaminylserylthreonylvalyl-
arginylphenylalanylprolylglycylaspartylvalyltyrosyllysylvalyltyrosyl-
arginyltyrosylasparaginylalanylvalylleucylaspartylprolylleucylisoleucyl-
threonylalanylleucylleucylglycylthreonylphenylalanylaspartylthreonyl-
arginylasparaginylarginylisoleucylisoleucylglutamylvalylglutamyl-
asparaginylglutaminylglutaminylserylprolylthreonylthreonylalanylglutamyl-
threonylleucylaspartylalanylthreonylarginylarginylvalylaspartylaspartyl-
alanylthreonylvalylalanylisoleucylarginylserylalanylasparaginylisoleucyl-
asparaginylleucylvalylasparaginylglutamylleucylvalylarginylglycyl-
threonylglycylleucyltyrosylasparaginylglutaminlasparaginylthreonyl-
phenylalanylglutamylserylmethionylserylglycylleucylvalyltryptophyl-
threonylserylalanylprolylalanylserine- i forgot a "y."

the word is actually spelled
"acetylseryltyrosylserylisoleucylthreonylserylprolylserylglutaminyl-
phenylalanylvalylphenylalanylleucylserylserylvalyltryptophylalanyl-
aspartylprolylisoleucylglutamylleucylleucylasparaginylvalylcysteinyl-
threonylserylserylleucylglycylasparaginylglutaminylphenylalanyl-
glutaminylthreonylglutaminylglutaminylalanylarginylthreonylthreonyl-
glutaminylvalylglutaminylglutaminylphenylalanylserylglutaminylvalyl-
tryptophyllysylprolylphenylalanylprolylglutaminylserylthreonylvalyl-
arginylphenylalanylprolylglycylaspartylvalyltyrosyllysylvalyltyrosyl-
arginyltyrosylasparaginylalanylvalylleucylaspartylprolylleucylisoleucyl-
threonylalanylleucylleucylglycylthreonylphenylalanylaspartylthreonyl-
arginylasparaginylarginylisoleucylisoleucylglutamylvalylglutamyl-
asparaginylglutaminylglutaminylserylprolylthreonylthreonylalanylglutamyl-
threonylleucylaspartylalanylthreonylarginylarginylvalylaspartylaspartyl-
alanylthreonylvalylalanylisoleucylarginylserylalanylasparaginylisoleucyl-
asparaginylleucylvalylasparaginylglutamylleucylvalylarginylglycyl-
threonylglycylleucyltyrosylasparaginylglutaminylasparaginylthreonyl-
phenylalanylglutamylserylmethionylserylglycylleucylvalyltryptophyl-
threonylserylalanylprolylalanylserine."

but the point is the same!

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Well I Googled

"acetylseryltyrosylserylisoleucylthreonylserylprolylserylglutaminyl-
phenylalanylvalylphenylalanylleucylserylserylvalyltryptophylalanyl-
aspartylprolylisoleucylglutamylleucylleucylasparaginylvalylcysteinyl-
threonylserylserylleucylglycylasparaginylglutaminylphenylalanyl-
glutaminylthreonylglutaminylglutaminylalanylarginylthreonylthreonyl-
glutaminylvalylglutaminylglutaminylphenylalanylserylglutaminylvalyl-
tryptophyllysylprolylphenylalanylprolylglutaminylserylthreonylvalyl-
arginylphenylalanylprolylglycylaspartylvalyltyrosyllysylvalyltyrosyl-
arginyltyrosylasparaginylalanylvalylleucylaspartylprolylleucylisoleucyl-
threonylalanylleucylleucylglycylthreonylphenylalanylaspartylthreonyl-
arginylasparaginylarginylisoleucylisoleucylglutamylvalylglutamyl-
asparaginylglutaminylglutaminylserylprolylthreonylthreonylalanylglutamyl-
threonylleucylaspartylalanylthreonylarginylarginylvalylaspartylaspartyl-
alanylthreonylvalylalanylisoleucylarginylserylalanylasparaginylisoleucyl-
asparaginylleucylvalylasparaginylglutamylleucylvalylarginylglycyl-
threonylglycylleucyltyrosylasparaginylglutaminylasparaginylthreonyl-
phenylalanylglutamylserylmethionylserylglycylleucylvalyltryptophyl-
threonylserylalanylprolylalanylserine"
And found this picture:

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylseryltyrosylserylisoleucylthreonylserylprolylserylglutaminyl

Google research is easy as is SpellCheck.

I did not know how to spell the word and did not have a clue as to its meaning.

My reference to the light being turned off had to do with the esoteric nature of the discussion, words being bantered about like designer jewels at the Academy Awards, and reasoning so recondite as to frustrate basic grammar and spelling.

So remember, kate
It's never too late
to obfuscate

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Quote:

My reference to the light being turned off had to do with the esoteric nature of the discussion, words being bantered about like designer jewels at the Academy Awards, and reasoning so recondite as to frustrate basic grammar and spelling.

or maybe neo, instead of admitting that you have no scripture to back up the beliefs you have been taught, you try to take the focus off what is screamingly obvious andturn it to grammar lessons.

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