Water Trickles Into Tri-Guard During Brine, normal?

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Hi,

I have a 10 year old Rainsoft unit (Amazon 14 day I believe) and I decided to watch the whole regeneration process because my water does not seem as soft as is has been in the past. So it goes through the backwash cycle with vim and vigor, then comes the Brine cycle and the water coming into the TriGuard just seems to trickle in and the water level in the salt tank does not drop much (12" square tank, drops about 3"). Does this seem normal? I've never watched a regeneration process so I have no idea what it may have done in the past during the Brine cycle. Does this sound like one of those infamous O-Ring problems?

Thanks for any thoughts.

-Mike

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Mike, you are on the right track.

The 3 piston O rings and the 2 O rings on the brine injector should be replaced.

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Thanks H2OMan, are the O-rings widely available and or difficult to replace?

I finished watching the process and it refilled the salt tank quicker than it emptied. Lots of noise and sucking sounds, not much action.

Thanks for the feedback!

-Mike

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mdwerne wrote:

Thanks H2OMan, are the O-rings widely available and or difficult to replace?

A local dealer may have some. Some owners have had luck matching the size at hardware stores.

HTH ~

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mdwerne wrote:

I finished watching the process and it refilled the salt tank quicker than it emptied. Lots of noise and sucking sounds, not much action.

All softener control valves, regardless of brand name, put the water in the brine tank much faster than they suck it out. That's the way it is done, and there are good reasons for it taking longer to suck it out. Most has to do with the resin.

I didn't re-read your other posts in the thread but, this has nothing to do with any problem you're having.

I went and re-read your problem; hard water past the softener. There are many reasons for that happening but replacing o-rings would be way down on my list. You could be using more water than 'normal'. This will happen if you left it run out or low on salt. Or if the brine line were sucking air instead of heavy brine water. Or a kinked drain line. A partially blocked injector or injector screen or throat. If your water hardness has increased should be checked before anything else. And I'm probably forgetting one or two other possibilities.

Add 2 gallons of water to the brine tank, just don't overflow it on the floor. Wait two hours and do a manual regeneration. Repeat that. Then see if the water is soft.

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Thanks H2OMan and Gary!

I will try adding water to the Brine tank and doing a manual regen as suggested. When I think about how large the resin tank is and then I see how much water flowed through the TriGuard down onto the beads, it just seemed like a squirt gun trying to wash a car. I guess I assumed that the water would flow onto the beads if not with force than at least with volume. That's why I was thinking O-rings. I hear lots of sound during that cycle, but from what I think I see, not much action.

Again, thanks to both.

-Mike

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mdwerne wrote:

Thanks H2OMan and Gary!

I will try adding water to the Brine tank and doing a manual regen as suggested. When I think about how large the resin tank is and then I see how much water flowed through the TriGuard down onto the beads, it just seemed like a squirt gun trying to wash a car. I guess I assumed that the water would flow onto the beads if not with force than at least with volume. That's why I was thinking O-rings. I hear lots of sound during that cycle, but from what I think I see, not much action.

Again, thanks to both.

-Mike

Mike, you have a brine draw problem - adding water to your brine tank will only cause a brine tank overflow problem.

The fix is to replace the O rings as mentioned and to make sure all 4 brine line connections are finger tight.

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The water in the salt tank going down 3" would be equal to about a 6-9 lb salt dose setting. You get about three lbs/gal of water and some less than a gallon per inch in a 12 x 12" tank.

How much water was left in the salt tank at the end of the slow rinse/brine draw (brining) cycle? If it was only 3-4" until the refill cycle, then you don't have a brine draw problem.

If you don't recall the amount, how much water is in the tank now and is there more now than normally? If not more, you don't have a brine draw problem.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

The water in the salt tank going down 3" would be equal to about a 6-9 lb salt dose setting.
You get about three lbs/gal of water and some less than a gallon per inch in a 12 x 12" tank.

Your formula does not apply to the old brass RainSoft valve with the 14 day timer.
The 14 day timer has twin 22 minute brine draw cycles.
It will suck a brine tank with over two feet of water in it dry.

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The length of time for the slow rinse/brine draw cycle, or the number of them, has nothing to do with the salt dose lbs or that water dissolves 2.7 lbs of salt per gallon of water in the brine tank.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

The length of time for the slow rinse/brine draw cycle, or the number of them, has nothing to do with the salt dose lbs or that water dissolves 2.7 lbs of salt per gallon of water in the brine tank.

Great information, but it does not apply to this situation.

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It applies to every softener in the world.

Educate me. From what he has said, what says brine draw problem to you?

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Gary Slusser wrote:

It applies to every softener in the world.

Educate me. From what he has said, what says brine draw problem to you?

How can one educate one who claims to know everything about everything?

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I'm starting to believe that you don't know much more about Rainsoft softeners than I do, which is just about nothing.

What makes you think he has a brine draw problem?

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Gary Slusser wrote:

What makes you think he has a brine draw problem?

mdwerne wrote:

I have a 10 year old Rainsoft unit (Amazon 14 day I believe) and I decided to watch the whole regeneration process because my water does not seem as soft as is has been in the past. So it goes through the backwash cycle with vim and vigor, then comes the Brine cycle and the water coming into the TriGuard just seems to trickle in and the water level in the salt tank does not drop much (12" square tank, drops about 3").

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How long should it have taken to draw down 3"?

How many inches should it have drawn down?

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Gary Slusser wrote:

How long should it have taken to draw down 3"?

How many inches should it have drawn down?

If everything is working properly it will empty the brine tank down to the tip of the brine line.

H2O_MAN wrote:

Gary Slusser wrote:

The water in the salt tank going down 3" would be equal to about a 6-9 lb salt dose setting.
You get about three lbs/gal of water and some less than a gallon per inch in a 12 x 12" tank.

Your formula does not apply to the old brass RainSoft valve with the 14 day timer.
The 14 day timer has twin 22 minute brine draw cycles.
It will suck a brine tank with over two feet of water in it dry.

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Yeah I know, how FAR is that in inches of brine?

Also, how long in minutes should that take?

I'll provide the answers since you want to duck'n weave; neither of us can know until we know the salt dose lbs and volume and type of resin in the softener.

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In inches? - you are not going to win that contest Razz

Gary Slusser wrote:

I'll provide the answers since you want to duck'n weave; neither of us can know until we know the salt dose lbs and volume and type of resin in the softener.

Why are you fixated on this when it does not apply to the problem?

The man has a slow brine draw problem.

I happen to know what the brine setting is and what resin is in the tank, but I'm not going to tell you - sweet dreams :wink:

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Hi Gary,

To answer the only question I can, there is the same amount of water in the brine tank before and after a full cycle. Not sure how far up from the bottom the water level is. If I were to guess, 18". Salt is about an inch and a half below the water level.

H2OMan,

I'm going to try and go to a local dealer (the one who has already charged me a few hundred for a new motor and service call) and see if they will sell me a few O-Rings. All brine lines seem at least finger tight. From the attached PDF, can you tell me which 2 and 3 O-Rings you suspect I should replace?

http://WernerPhotographic.com/AmazonPartsDrawing.pdf

Thanks again for both your help!!! This forum is just amazing!! In my book your both awesome and have offered some great advice!

-Mike

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Water Trickles Into Tri-Guard During Brine, normal?

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